Author Topic: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs  (Read 4792 times)

Offline Pete Bush

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1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« on: May 07, 2011, 10:13:23 AM »
Unlike Bryan's southern rust-free convertible, my northern convertible is in need of some extensive repairs. I didn't know how extensive until I had the opportunity to get it on a buddy's four-post lift the other day.

The first picture is a shot of some stainless steel patch panels under the passenger side floor.
The next two are pictures after one of the stainless panels was removed.
I pulled back the carpet and found a fiberglass patch on the floor (picture). And after the fiberglass was removed I had a better idea of the damage.

I'm figuring the toe board, short front floor pan, front floor support, inner rocker, and torque box. I haven't taken anything apart on the driver's side yet, but early indications are a similar situation there. Everything from the front buckets back looks good. And the outer rockers look okay.

I'd like to attempt repairs myself (with the aid of a friend with extensive body-building experience). My research indicates I may be farther ahead by constructing a frame jig. I have both the Liskey frame dimensions and the one out of the Shop manual. I plan on building an eight-post stand to set the body on while repairs are made using those dimensions.

I'd welcome any pointers others could offer. And how I might go about making the repairs as invisible as possible.

Pete
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 10:17:38 AM by Pete Bush »
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2011, 05:09:55 PM »

Pete, It;s really weird seeing these pictures since I almost bought that car back like 10 years ago.  I get to see what I would have been dealing with...lol.... Does'nt look too bad, just some panel replacement with a Mig welder that is needed.  I've seen cars that are 1000 times worse.  Just replace what's needed.. Looks like you will need lots of time, some replacement panels, A good mig welder, and lots of beer.  Nothing you can't handle.  Tony K.

Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
MCA#70001

Offline bryancobb

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2011, 05:45:38 PM »
Pete,
I feel for ya'.  I  hope you are still happy with your purchase and didn't get ripped off.

* Are the fitup joints on both doors at the front fenders and the rear quarters uniform?
If those joints are near the same gap from top to bottom, then your car isn't sagging.

If the joints are narrower at the top and get bigger as you look downward, then your car is saging and you need to jack it upward halfway between the wheels, until the gaps are uniform BEFORE building the jig.

Bryan
66 Metuch Conv
Nightmist, Std Blu Int
6T08C223904    76A       K         22       15c     21      6        6
                      BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  XMSN
   C/O  785                                   (rotation #)
   16    C14   6T08C223904        (weld bay 16, bucked MAR 14)

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2011, 09:23:43 PM »
Thanks for the condolences guys (lol)!

The car is definitely a keeper - at least for my wife Sharon and I. Her dad owned it in the mid-eighties. Dad died in 1994. When we had an opportunity to buy it, we jumped on it. It has a huge sentimental value for us. Heck, the stainless patch repairs are probably his work. Doors close good. And margins aren't too bad. If it sags I don't expect it's by much.

The frame charts I speak of should get me back to factory original, and my jig will be based upon them.

I was hoping that I might get some feedback from someone who's been there - done that....
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2011, 09:36:33 PM »

Yeah, I remember seeing the car in person in Conecticutway back in 2001.  It looked clean and solid... I was shocked that I did'nt wind up buying it...back then...especially because it was a Sprint convertible.

Tony K.
Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
MCA#70001

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 06:42:48 AM »
I've been busy researching the upcoming repair and preparing the interior and exterior by removing parts.

I found several references on other forums suggesting that the Shop Manual rear dimension of 15.13 was a misprint and should actually be 16 (a difference of 7/8"). Is this correct? Others suggest that the Liskey dimensions are more accurate....
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline bryancobb

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 07:51:22 AM »
Pete,

Here's my worthless input:

Those dimensions should only be referred to during manufacture and repair of collision damage!   YOU HAVE AN IN-TACT, UNWRECKED CAR.  The only dimension you will have that may be different than what it should be, is any sagging at the door opening caused by cancer.

The best way to correctly straighten out the sagging, is to use the door as the TEMPLATE.  This is MUCH more accurate than a tape measure.  You can VISUALLY see a 0.020" deviation in door fitup gap.

My advice is to correct sagging and then jig your car where it is, and build it back to where it is!!!
66 Metuch Conv
Nightmist, Std Blu Int
6T08C223904    76A       K         22       15c     21      6        6
                      BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  XMSN
   C/O  785                                   (rotation #)
   16    C14   6T08C223904        (weld bay 16, bucked MAR 14)

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 06:52:08 PM »
Bryan,

Thanks for the reply.

I agree that the horizontal dimensions won’t be needed. The floor pan is in good enough shape to maintain lateral stability. The inner rocker, as much as I can see, has some significant rust. The repairs my father-in-law made have performed well. And if anything, judging by the door margin, he may have over compensated and the floor might have a slight bow up.

My idea was only to remove those items necessary to execute repairs: carpet, seats, various interior components, and front fender. I was going to leave everything else intact for now, including the drivetrain and door. (Unless I find I have to take more apart to get the new parts in place.)

While I believe the horizontal dimensions are okay, I am concerned about the vertical dimensions. The jig I have in mind would be based upon the Liskey frame dimensions with the addition of adjustable leveling feet at each vertical support location. There would be 8 vertical supports that the frame would set on. I can then cut loose the inner rocker, torque box and other affected areas without fear of the frame sagging any further than factory spec. And then use the leveling feet at the post locations to fine-tune the dimensions while watching the door margins as you suggest. The outer rocker would remain in place as an original spacer. I don’t think I’ll have to replace that piece. Once I have the optimum combination of frame measurements and door opening margins I can begin installing the new sheet metal.

Spot welds will have to be drilled out with a spot weld drill. I think I can plug weld the new components at these locations and dress the welds to try and maintain a factory original appearance. On the floor pan components I was thinking of preparing the patch panels for butt welds and dressing them to provide for a smooth original appearance. I can also spot weld areas that would originally have been spot welded. Maybe I can keep the evidence of the repair to the bare minimum?

I can’t say with certainty that the car has NEVER been wrecked. I only know its history since the mid-eighties. For instance, as I said above I had to remove the front fender. The Car, since I know it, has always had a rear-mounted radio antenna. I expected to see body work on the inside of the fender where the radio antenna should have been mounted – but there was none. It’s a pristine front fender without an antenna hole. I suppose the dealer could have mounted the antenna on the rear instead of the front. But there’s also the possibility that the fender was replaced. I need to check out the date codes to verify which scenario is more likely. I’ll try to post some pictures later and maybe we can figure it out?
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2011, 06:36:00 AM »
I found a date code on the passenger fender of 8 11 D3. Buck date for the car was 6 21. I also found evidence of a hole in the grommet that normally carries the antenna wire (currently not in use because of the rear antenna). This suggests the fender was replaced by a PO sometime during its first 20 years. Can't say for certain if it was replaced due to damage, or simply so the antenna could be relocated.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2011, 09:40:42 AM »
I've read where a rusted floor pan may be the result of a leaking cowl. So I poured water down into the passenger side cowl to see if the vents are leaking or the cowl had pinholes. All appears dry inside. That's a good sign!!

Is there any way to treat the area around the cowl vent just as a preventative measure? Looks like the only access would be the louvered opening on top, the drain hole, and a plug.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline bryancobb

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2011, 02:27:19 PM »
Pete,

The best access, of course,  through the heater box inlet and the vent inlet. 

I think you can get your arm in there all the way to the elbow if you're small.

The next best is that 3/4"x2" slot on each side where water drains out.

One day when I do my body,  I'm going to stick the media blast nozzle up inside there and do a "brush-off" blast.  Then I'm gonna stick my arm up inside there and paint it with a brush with PPG Concept.
66 Metuch Conv
Nightmist, Std Blu Int
6T08C223904    76A       K         22       15c     21      6        6
                      BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  XMSN
   C/O  785                                   (rotation #)
   16    C14   6T08C223904        (weld bay 16, bucked MAR 14)

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2011, 02:53:29 PM »
Bryan,

I took the plug out that's by the cowl vent. I can see into the area and it doesn't look too bad - all things considered.

Do you think it might be possible to stop up the drain temporarily - with say, silicone caulk or something like that?
Here's why I ask:
If I can create a temporary plug in the drain hole, it may be possible to fill the area up with Evaporust by pouring it through the louvers with a funnel and simply letting it run into that area. I could monitor how much to pour in by watching thru the inspection plug hole. Let the Evaporust do it's thing for a couple of hours and then remove the silicone caulk plug and drain it all out. After it dried thoroughly, I could repeat the process with POR-15.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline bryancobb

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 09:49:35 PM »
I'm a person who thinks outside the box too.  Plugging the holes with silicone ought to work??

I wouldn't feel good doing that though.  I have several concerns.  Evaporust leaves a tenacious residue!  It is almost like yucky brown glue.  I doubt you could get all that outta there.  The other concern is that the evaporust would have to stay in there for a day or two to do its' job.

If it's in pretty good shape, there's a better way.  I just don't know what it is?  LOL

66 Metuch Conv
Nightmist, Std Blu Int
6T08C223904    76A       K         22       15c     21      6        6
                      BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  XMSN
   C/O  785                                   (rotation #)
   16    C14   6T08C223904        (weld bay 16, bucked MAR 14)

Offline ajd350

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 10:34:51 PM »
You could also use modeling clay to plug the drain. Cheap, no drying time and easy to clean up.
MCA #2254

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: 1966 Convertible Structural Repairs
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2011, 07:18:39 AM »
I read on the company website about the product being used on a rusted motorcycle gas tank. The testimonial claimed that, "When I opened up the gas cap the next day I couldn't believe my eyes. It was almost like new inside." No mention of a residue. Seems that this type of usage would be very similar to the cowl vent application; the vessel containing the Evaporust is the item undergoing chelation and not a separate part soaking in the solution.

Shouldn't be a problem to flush the cowl out with water after treatment - just stick a garden hose in the area and let it run.

And letting the area soak for a day or two  isn't an issue either as long as the temporary plug holds. But perhaps two or three 6-hour applications is better than one longer session. It has the added benefit of flushing any possible residue before it has a chance of accumulating to any extent.

Modeling clay may be a good plug as long as there was no seepage around the edges. It certainly would have the added advantage of easy removal, although a silicone plug wouldn't be that difficult to remove either.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st