ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gta289 on December 25, 2013, 09:23:44 AM
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I found a picture (below) of a 67 with interior decor that has the full size (even over the cardboard filler) sound deadener material in the trunk, as discussed in this excellent "how to" article:
http://concoursmustang.com/speegle/Articles/Article_Trunk_Underlayment.pdf (http://concoursmustang.com/speegle/Articles/Article_Trunk_Underlayment.pdf)
I have this also in the trunk of my interior decor car. In fact I've only seen these in 67 cars with interior decor. Jeff's article focuses on 69-70 cars with the "extra" insultation package. Perhaps this same thing applies to the 67 interior decor cars.
Has anyone else observed this?
Moving to the interior, are there any thoughts on whether the floor underlayment on the interior decor cars is a different material and/or has more area covered? My observation is that the interior decor floor underlayment material is the same as the style in the trunk and as discussed in the article. I don't remember though anything different on standard interior vehicles.
Lastly, under the vehicle, I have not seen any "extra" sprayed sound deadener material applied in association with interior decor for 67. That appears to be something started in 69 with Grande/Mach/Shelby applications.
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John I have a 67 Décor car and a 68 Décor car both are SJ car neither had the large pads I guess they could have been removed. I have seen a few 67-68s with the board on the fuel tank. But most do not.
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I'm thinking it's part of the Décor package of 67-68's. We own the 67 Metuchen Mustang with Int/Ext Décor and has been in our family 33 years.
For the life of me, I can't remember the trunk padding. But, of course a PO could have removed it.
See if anybody else can shed some light on this subject.
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I agree. When I removed mine in 1980 there was one piece that was about 20 square inches, and everything else was less than 10 square inches. Most was pulled up by the shop vac. Only the gas tank was covered, everything else was gone. The picture really caught my eye.
I've had quite a few without the Decor package and have never seen one on them.
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The 67 SJ Shelby's all had deluxe interior and they all had the gas tank pad . They did not have the extra trunk floor padding on ether side of the gas tank like the 69/70 Cougars or Shelby's as in Jeff's 69 article focus. I have not seen the extra padding on a 67/68 has anyone else?
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I have not seen the large size underlayment in 67/68 examples which I have personally inspected. To me this is an interesting thread and I appreciate the pdf article! The smaller size (fuel tank area only) tar underlayment I've seen had a very thin plastic layer applied to it, similar to that mentioned in the pdf above. For 67/68, I am wondering whether or not the plastic was supposed to have been removed so the tar would adhere to the tank??? I've only seen examples with the plastic still attached.
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..............Lastly, under the vehicle, I have not seen any "extra" sprayed sound deadener material applied in association with interior decor for 67. That appears to be something started in 69 with Grande/Mach/Shelby applications.
Please done assume that since one car shares the same features and parts as another with similar options are the same - Good way to get yourself into trouble. :)
The 69 information has nothing to do with your 67 Nothing. Even if it did it would be differnet in style or material
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Jeff, I was just comparing and contrasting the noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) related sound deadening features between the two model years, not equating them per se.
Considering that the trunk underlayment appears to be the same material between 67 and 69, I put myself in the shoes of an NVH engineer and was thinking about how things change between model years and to a lesser degree running changes.
Next is speculation, based in part on observation. Yes, we need more evidence...
1. Trunk underlayment. It sure looks like the 67/68 and 69/70 material is the same. It also appears that this was included with the interior decor option of 67/68 and the Grande/Mach options of 69/70. I have not seen this on the 65/66 models, but have worked on far fewer to say.
1a. There is a question raised by Bob G. that the "extra" material on the trunk flats as shown in the 67 picture in the original post may not be original, and that was more of a 69/70 thing. A few extra pictures here. Sure looks original. But like Bob, this is the first of this type that I've seen on a 67/68.
2. Floor underlayment. Could it be that since NVH was a growing concern, that the floor underlayment on the "deluxe" models were built with either different material and/or had additional coverage? I have no specific observations here, just asking the question in the spirit of the topic.
3. Undercarriage sprayed sound deadener. Based on what I have read and observed, in 69 for Grande/Mach options there was additional material applied below the vehicle. I have never seen this on 67/68 so was stating that this appears to be an engineering improvement made for the new body style, and does not apply to 67/68.
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I think most likely at some point the fuel tank may have been replaced and the latter underlayment was used. I would have to see this a number of times or on a documented unrestored car before I would consider it a factory difference. :)
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Thanks Jeff. Could you comment as to whether or not you have seen, for 67/68, the plastic film removed from the rubber underlayment? My observation has been that in the 67s I've seen, the rubber was not adhered to the tank, hence I thought the plastic film had not been reomoved. I would like to understand what you have seen.
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I think most likely at some point the fuel tank may have been replaced and the latter underlayment was used. I would have to see this a number of times or on a documented unrestored car before I would consider it a factory difference. :)
Absolutely agree Marty. This is 1 of x, and x = 1 right now. My own car had the material only on top of the tank, as were the others I've seen so far. But that stuff is so dang brittle, I wonder who would have taken the time to put this in after a tank replacement or similar event, and got it to go in one piece.
BTW the car pictured is 7R03C105xxx
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John I was thinking if it were replace like in the 70's. They may have used a latter part # for the underlay. BTW does that car have a folding back glass I see it has the hard board trunk divider?
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Marty, the rear window is a replacement, I don't know what was originally installed.
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Thanks Jeff. Could you comment as to whether or not you have seen, for 67/68, the plastic film removed from the rubber underlayment? My observation has been that in the 67s I've seen, the rubber was not adhered to the tank, hence I thought the plastic film had not been reomoved. I would like to understand what you have seen.
IMHO the plastic final layer may be a production deviation or just examples were the plastic was not removed and replaced by a paper layer (mistake or on purpose) but that style of underlayment in my experience is not typical (wasn't used) during 67 San Jose production in the trunk on interior.
All the examples I have of the interior underlayment currently since the single layer tar based product similar to what was used in earlier years) and a single jute layer over just the tank in the trunk. The pattern so far appears to have nothing to do with the interior option (padding only on deluxe interior cars. So the search continues
Almost all of the examples are gone after so many years - you can often find a small amount of jute attached to the tank and floor of the trunk with the original adhesive but that could be from the pad or from the mat backing (same or similar material ) So IMHO no way to tell if all cars got the pad or it was a running change in production
Sometimes the pad can be very soaked with chemicals and take on a very dark color - found in two examples
Hope this helps
Here are just a couple of examples
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/7R03C188372DStrunkfloor2_zps5b44f275.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/7R03C188372DStrunkfloor2_zps5b44f275.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/7R01C182430trnk_zps39b9e2ef.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/7R01C182430trnk_zps39b9e2ef.jpg.html)
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Wow, do I have more searching to do! I now understand 2 new things I couldn't recollect about the trunk.
1.) The aftermarket trunk mats suck and are unlikely to be used as Concours correct. (like the one I already bought)
2.) Interior Decor cars had a sound deadener pad over the tank (possibly the raised frame area too)
Let the new searches begin.
If anybody has any new light to shed on this topic, please speak up.
Thanks
Richard
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The 7F02C200xxx one owner unrestored car I just saw was a standard interior, and had the thick pad over the gas tank, so I think that the "deluxe = gas tank pad" is incorrect. The saga continues.
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As I am taking a part of my trunk under restoration, I found this topic when searching as much information as I can concerning correct trunk layout...
When I removed the protection carpet (it is just a rug :o) I found an underlayment that looks very old ;D.
Is it original or not, that I let the specialist to decide.
I just want to share it with you. My fastback has the interior decor option.
I know that the gas tank has been replaced over the years, but they took there time for laying back the underlayment.
You can clearly see the plastic layer at one side and at the other side the jute backing. At that side there is a top layer of paper.
Have all a great sunday.
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Thanks for sharing Jeroen. What you have is exactly what I had on mine, in both material characteristics and size (coverage).
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Hello John,
Thanks for your answer. Glad that I am not the only one ;)
Jeroen
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As I am taking a part of my trunk under restoration, I found this topic when searching as much information as I can concerning correct trunk layout...
When I removed the protection carpet (it is just a rug :o) I found an underlayment that looks very old ;D.
Is it original or not, that I let the specialist to decide.
I just want to share it with you. My fastback has the interior decor option.
I know that the gas tank has been replaced over the years, but they took there time for laying back the underlayment.
You can clearly see the plastic layer at one side and at the other side the jute backing. At that side there is a top layer of paper.
Have all a great sunday.
Kind regards,
Jeroen
Jeroen,that looks like a typical SJ style underlayment. not sure about other plant usage . What plant was the car built?
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Good evening Bob,
My car was built in San Jose, built on 01/12/67.
I do have another question about the underlayment...
The underlayment inside (=interior) my car was built up like this :
- layer cotton/needled ?
- tar
- top was craftpaper
and then there was a 'layer' of jute fabric and on top the carpet.
But in the trunk there is (on my car)/
- layer of jute fabric
- tar
- top also crafpaper
(so no layer of cotton?)
Due to risk of fire (?) because it lays on top of the gas tank?
Thanks for clearing this out for me (just out of curiosity :))
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Good evening Bob,
My car was built in San Jose, built on 01/12/67.
I do have another question about the underlayment...
The underlayment inside (=interior) my car was built up like this :
- layer cotton/needled ?
- tar
- top was craftpaper
and then there was a 'layer' of jute fabric and on top the carpet.
But in the trunk there is (on my car)/
- layer of jute fabric
- tar
- top also crafpaper
(so no layer of cotton?)
Due to risk of fire (?) because it lays on top of the gas tank?
Thanks for clearing this out for me (just out of curiosity :))
Kind regards,
Jeroen
No cotton. The clear plastic side of the underlayment is placed down and the paper side up typically. The same typically goes for inside . The extra material I think you are referring to on the inside is that the carpet typically had sections of jute padding material attached to the bottom side . It was used going over the tunnel but not under the entire carpet. It sounds like you have extra material in the mix.
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Agree with Bob on the layer of jute attached to the bottom of the original carpet in areas. Typically missing on the seat riser sections and up towards the rear seat on many years and models
At the bottom half of the picture on the right you''ll see the upper jute payer has become detached from the carpet but on the upper its still attached. Below you can make out the darker composite jute underlayment. In other sections you can see where no layers were present or just the carpet jute was
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-310515171422.jpeg)
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No cotton. The clear plastic side of the underlayment is placed down and the paper side up typically. The same typically goes for inside . The extra material I think you are referring to on the inside is that the carpet typically had sections of jute padding material attached to the bottom side . It was used going over the tunnel but not under the entire carpet. It sounds like you have extra material in the mix.
I just recieved my new "ACC" branded underlayment and was surprised how nice it looked to what I thought as what the factory did for 67's & 68's but once I laid it in, was ( like always it seems) surprised that they would do it wrong.
If I understand (and looking at Jeroen's example), the shiney side should go down.
Why, oh why do they get so da#@ close and yet so far away. :(
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I just received my new "ACC" branded underlayment and was surprised how nice it looked to what I thought as what the factory did for 67's & 68's but once I laid it in, was ( like always it seems) surprised that they would do it wrong.
If I understand (and looking at Jeroen's example), the shiney side should go down.
Why, oh why do they get so da#@ close and yet so far away. :(
So they made the shinny version?
As we discovered when we were making underlayment for 69's there were at least three versions and usage was often dependent on plant and time period.
Personally have not see the version with the shinny or thin plastic top/bottom used often at San Jose. Much more often paper finish on both sides or at least more visible - installed paper up
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So they made the shinny version?
...Personally have not see the version with the shinny or thin plastic top/bottom used often at San Jose. Much more often paper finish on both sides or at least more visible - installed paper up
What do you make of Jeroen's 1/12/67 San Jose example?
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My 11/16/66 SJ standard interior coupe has tank overlay like Jeroen's. Shiny side down. Same as overlay over the rear axle tunnel, as well as pieces under carpet.
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What do you make of Jeroen's 1/12/67 San Jose example?
Have no reason to question its presence or his findings. Looks like his example lacks the thick center brown layer of jute we see used under the carpet. Similar to what we saw used for a time period in 65 and 66 San Jose.
IMHO suggests that multiple suppliers with different produces supplied San Jose during 67 production. Not a surprise. Did post some pictures of an all jute version in reply #13 so we now have three.
I do think we have enough examples to suggest that the gas tank cover/underlayment was not limited to the decor or deluxe interior only.
Since this is a 4 year old thread maybe I should go through and post some additional examples as I'm sure there is more to discover with more examples. More examples may produce a pattern - just maybe