ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gta289 on January 15, 2010, 10:54:34 PM
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Before I get to my list of detailed questions ;) let me start with the process that I've followed...
1. Created a detailed spreadsheet of all fasteners and brackets. Pictures taken before removal, after removal, and after cleanup.
2. Reviewed MCA Mustang Rules for my vehicle (67 SJ fastback GTA C code) and added the required finish to the spreadsheet. There was a fair amount of information on larger components, including some brackets, but not much at the small bracket and fastener level. I understand that it would turn a 13 page document into a 300 page document.
3. Scrubbed the various assembly manuals and, as before, added the finish to the spreadsheet. I understand from other forum threads that these manuals are not fool proof - but I would rather change a rusty bolt to what the manual says than going random.
4. Reviewed pictures, and more pictures. However, even though they are supposedly worth a thousand words they themselves don't add much from a small part finish perspective.
After all that I've got a list...pared down to 30 items that I've been unable to link up to a recommended or required finish - in the attached Excel spreadsheet. I've done my best looking for the information and now need some expert advise. Thanks in advance, John.
***Update - the Excel file is corrupt, and I can't find the original. It was 8 years ago! Still not done, lol. However, if you look through the replies all of the items were addressed***
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Looks like a fun task and helpful for your restoration - thanks for taking this on
Before I get to my list of detailed questions ;) let me start with the process that I've followed...........
3. Scrubbed the various assembly manuals and, as before, added the finish to the spreadsheet. I understand from other forum threads that these manuals are not fool proof - but I would rather change a rusty bolt to what the manual says than going random.......
No reason to go random and would suggest that you double check the finishes you find in the manuals against what San Jose installed. No harm in double checking and getting it right ;)
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A few I believe are correct off the top of my head
- blower motor nut in eng compt - sht mtl with rubber seal - Zinc dichromate
- lower control arm - inner mounting/adjusting bolt and washer - bare/oil treated hardened steel
- rear shock washers - phosphate & oil
- rad bottom pad - pad - bare natural rubber
- brake hose front bracket C1SS-2082-C - Semi-gloss black
- splash shield rear - bracket- C7ZB-16256-7 - A - Semi-gloss black
- caliper - bleeder - zinc dichromate
- strut rod - tube 3473 - Believe the nicer original ones I've seen were zinc
Not sure which pieces you are referencing in the two following
gas tank bolt -MFC self tap
gas tank clamp - circle with dot
As for the others its too easy IMHO to start confusing one year or another plant with each other. The rest will take time but we all can work on this and check each others finding. Have plenty of 67 San Jose cars around - just have to find time to pull and clean each item to help out
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Here's my shot at your list. Of course, would be good to verify with some low mileage cars from the same assembly plant and same time period. The assembly manual matches maybe 90% of the time with what we find on original cars. I assume you know what the finish codes are.. S2-phosphate/oil, S8-Zinc, S36-Zinc dichromate.
batt tray S2
blower motor Brownish Gold
brake booster S2
brake dist block S8
brake hose front S8
brake hose front SG black
brake pedal brkt S2 or S8
caliper S8
caliper S36
caliper pad
caliper pad
fuse panel S2 or S8
gas tank S2 or S8
gas tank
horn S2
horn S2
lower control arm S2 or plain
lower control arm S2 or plain
ps hose brkt @ eng mount S8
rad bottom pad S2
rear axle vent S8
rear shock S8
rear shock S8
splash shield rear SG black
starter relay S8
strut rod S8
strut rod Strut rod is natural
tie rod coupler Natural
upper control arm S7 nut
volt reg S8
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My first response is WOW. A few hours later and I've got significant direction. I want to thank everyone on this forum for making a newbie not feeling, well, like a newbie. It takes a special talent for an expert to share information with someone that is a few years or decades behind them while not making them feel too ignorant. You guys have it.
All I can offer at this point is to share my work when it is presentable. From my perspective I think it would be really cool to have a database that someone can punch in some basics (model/year/plant/build date) and then have access to pictures/descriptions/part numbers/finishes...but that is the geak inside showing.
Getting back on topic, given the overwhelming success at the first run, I'll go back to the well again on a few more fasteners...
1967 SJ
1. Strut rod cup washer (3A142)
2. Disc brake pad retaining bracket screws (small with tooth washer)
3. Upper control arm bolts - thru shock tower (perhaps originals are pressed in...mine were replaced and the bolts are not original)
4. Parking brake bracket, on firewall just below the rubber tube that sticks through the firewall.
5. Fender bracket C7ZB-16A005-6
6. Fender mounting shims "U" shaped
7. Fuel line clips at gas tank, fairly complicated "S" shape
8. Hood bumper bolt (exposed part below rubber top)
9. Hood bumper jam nut
10. Hood bumper J-nut
11. Final one (for now...) more of a question - when I removed the accelerator assembly from the firewall, the three sheet metal screws had washers (2 split lock, 1 tooth) that do not appear on the chassis assembly manual drawings. Since they do not appear, and since they were a mismatch, I assume that they are incorrect and that no washers should go back. Comments on this?
Thanks again, John
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1967 SJ
1. Strut rod cup washer (3A142) Usually phosphate
2. Disc brake pad retaining bracket screws (small with tooth washer)
3. Upper control arm bolts - thru shock tower (perhaps originals are pressed in...mine were replaced and the bolts are not original) Phosphate or a dark heat treated steel appearance
4. Parking brake bracket, on firewall just below the rubber tube that sticks through the firewall. Natural stamped steel
5. Fender bracket C7ZB-16A005-6 SG black
6. Fender mounting shims "U" shaped Zinc
7. Fuel line clips at gas tank, fairly complicated "S" shape Black or Olive drab with black dipped end
8. Hood bumper bolt (exposed part below rubber top) Usually zinc dichromate
9. Hood bumper jam nut Phosphate or zinc
10. Hood bumper J-nut Phosphate
11. Final one (for now...) more of a question - when I removed the accelerator assembly from the firewall, the three sheet metal screws had washers (2 split lock, 1 tooth) that do not appear on the chassis assembly manual drawings. Since they do not appear, and since they were a mismatch, I assume that they are incorrect and that no washers should go back. Comments on this? Shouldn't be any washers. Previous owner may have put them on if the screws became loose
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If anyone has a picture of the olive drab with black dipped end fuel line clips discussed above it would be appreciated.
Looking for further direction on proper finish for the S100 cowl bracket bolts, and the S100 power steering arm bracket nut part # 382832.
Regarding fender bolts, I've got the wrong ones - newer 1980 vintage SEMS bolts. Most of the other part # 378178 bolts have a head mark of a double quote (" over "), semi flat washer with notches (not tooth washers). Should these same bolts be used for the fender? The double quote bolts were found on the spring coil covers and other non-exposed applications. Any recommendation on where to find these - looked a few places and no luck thus far.
Thanks, John
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Here's my shot at your list. ................................
batt tray S2
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rear shock S8
rear shock S8
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Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?
All I can offer at this point is to share my work when it is presentable. From my perspective I think it would be really cool to have a database that someone can punch in some basics (model/year/plant/build date) and then have access to pictures/descriptions/part numbers/finishes...but that is the geak inside showing.
The only problem we're seeing in using the internet is that many get spoiled and immediately assume everything should be available at the click of the mouse with out acknowledgement or understanding the efforts (in time and money) it took to assemble the information. Believe, like most things in life, that we value what we work for and what is given does not often get the respect or value that it deserves. Just a thought and a comment ;)
Getting back on topic, given the overwhelming success at the first run, I'll go back to the well again on a few more fasteners...
As we both mentioned before - don't assume any of our responses are 100% perfect until they are confirmed and backed up with real cars. - JMHO
Again some of this is going to take some time to confirm with some cars
1967 SJ
1. Strut rod cup washer (3A142)
2. Disc brake pad retaining bracket screws (small with tooth washer)
3. Upper control arm bolts - thru shock tower (perhaps originals are pressed in...mine were replaced and the bolts are not original)
Dark heat treated sheet
4. Parking brake bracket, on firewall just below the rubber tube that sticks through the firewall.
Semi-gloss black
5. Fender bracket C7ZB-16A005-6
Semi-gloss black
6. Fender mounting shims "U" shaped
Not often used - but if they used one it would have been zinc plated
7. Fuel line clips at gas tank, fairly complicated "S" shape
Draub Green oxide
As a note not all San Jose cars used these in 67 there were a number of different systems used to retain the fuel line and sending unit wire over the year.
8. Hood bumper bolt (exposed part below rubber top)
Originals look like cadium
9. Hood bumper jam nut
10. Hood bumper J-nut
11. Final one (for now...) more of a question - when I removed the accelerator assembly from the firewall, the three sheet metal screws .................... Comments on this?
If I recall correctly (could look through all the pictures but that's allot - maybe later) no washers But don't forget these would have had hard plastic (gray in color) covers over the ends (engine compartment end) once in stall
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Here's my shot at your list. ................................
batt tray S2
.......................
rear shock S8
rear shock S8
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Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?
Yep, tons of them.
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Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?
Yep, tons of them.
How many of those were 67-up?
And guess I should clarify - for the rear shocks.
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How many of those were 67-up?
And guess I should clarify - for the rear shocks.
Hehe, let me get back to you on an exact number ;D
The thick shock washers I have seen, mostly 65-66, were all zinc plated.
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Quote from: J_Speegle on January 16, 2010, 11:06:41 PM The only problem we're seeing in using the internet is that many get spoiled and immediately assume everything should be available at the click of the mouse with out acknowledgement or understanding the efforts (in time and money) it took to assemble the information. Believe, like most things in life, that we value what we work for and what is given does not often get the respect or value that it deserves. Just a thought and a comment I completely understand. I'm sure that the process of obtaining and organizing the data that you have is time consuming and never ending. Then someone like me is looking for an answer before my paint dries and I get it! Other than respecting your work and implementing your recommendations, what can the "Joe user" do to help? Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers? Attached are pictures of mine. The cleaner one is from the top of the shock - protected from the elements. The shocks are Autolite C7Z... and are original, so I assume the washers are too. December 66 SJ built. (I see the insert image option but did not figure it out, so included the pictures as attachments. Any instructions for future posts?) If I recall correctly (could look through all the pictures but that's allot - maybe later) no washers But don't forget these would have had hard plastic (gray in color) covers over the ends (engine compartment end) once in stall The accelerator assembly screw heads are on the engine compartment side. I've seen the gray hard plastic covers on screws that have heads on the interior with the tip sticking in the engine compartment. Is this what you were thinking or do I need calibration? Next I'll re-paste some questions that I asked on my last post, in case they got overlooked :D If anyone has a picture of the olive drab with black dipped end fuel line clips discussed above it would be appreciated. Looking for further direction on proper finish for the S100 cowl bracket bolts, and the S100 power steering hydraulic cylinder rod bracket (that bolts to frame) nut part # 382832. Regarding fender bolts, I've got the wrong ones - newer 1980 vintage SEMS bolts. Most of the other part # 378178 bolts have a head mark of a double quote (" over "), semi flat washer with notches (not tooth washers). Should these same bolts be used for the fender? The double quote bolts were found on the spring coil covers and other non-exposed applications. Any recommendation on where to find these? - looked a few places and no luck thus far. John
***reloaded pictures***
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Probably not the best pic, but gets you an idea of the clip finish:
http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/K_vert/11_23_09/11_23_09%20055.jpg
These are originals that were simply cleaned. Usually some nice examples under the dash and where the wring runs behind the LH kick panel.
The finish on the cowl bolts is typically zinc dichromate. S100 would be an indication that there was possibly a little extra treatment given to them or a spec different than the typical S36 finish.
The spring cover bolts and fender bolts typically do not match, so I would not recommend installing the same style on your fenders. You'll need to do your homework on that one and try to find some nice SJ examples close to yours in production.
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I completely understand. I'm sure that the process of obtaining and organizing the data that you have is time consuming and never ending. Then someone like me is looking for an answer before my paint dries and I get it! Other than respecting your work and implementing your recommendations, what can the "Joe user" do to help?
Your doing exactly what you need to - looking at what you believe is original, sharing your findings and asking questions IMHO
That is what this site is all about
Attached are pictures of mine. The cleaner one is from the top of the shock - protected from the elements. The shocks are Autolite C7Z... and are original, so I assume the washers are too. December 66 SJ built.
Then appartently we have them both ways on rear shocks (only seen zinc on fronts) at San Jose in mid 67. May I ask - do your rear shocks have a fine or course treads and are they marked MADE IN US or MADE IN CANADA?
I've seen the gray hard plastic covers on screws that have heads on the interior with the tip sticking in the engine compartment. Is this what you were thinking or do I need calibration?
Yes those ones - often missing and not seen on restored cars
Regarding fender bolts, I've got the wrong ones - newer 1980 vintage SEMS bolts. Most of the other part # 378178 bolts have a head mark of a double quote (" over "), semi flat washer with notches (not tooth washers). Should these same bolts be used for the fender? The double quote bolts were found on the spring coil covers and other non-exposed applications. Any recommendation on where to find these?
Looking at my pictures of mid Dec 67 San Jose cars I see the fender and spring covers matching at least half the time. All of them have the quote marked flat washers for the fenders and the same are often used on the spring covers. When they don't match ( a couple of them) its the spring covers that are the start washer style. So if you have the original spring cover ones I would beat that the fenders were matching on your car based on what I have
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How many of those were 67-up?
And guess I should clarify - for the rear shocks.
Hehe, let me get back to you on an exact number ;D
The thick shock washers I have seen, mostly 65-66, were all zinc plated.
My vote is S2 for 67 & up
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How many of those were 67-up?
And guess I should clarify - for the rear shocks.
+1 Bob
Hehe, let me get back to you on an exact number ;D
The thick shock washers I have seen, mostly 65-66, were all zinc plated.
My vote is S2 for 67 & up
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Sorry for the delay...here is info on the shocks:
Autolite, Made in Canada, C7ZF-18080-C1, T6LE R AR (refer to picture)
Threads - fine (refer to picture)
Rubber bushings - Harris / Ford / 66409 / I-500969 (hard to read, harder to get a good picture...180k miles, but evidence on washer picture on previous post)
Cup washers - zinc plated - refer to pictures on previous post.
Thick? A subjective term, and I've got nothing to compare to.
Keep in mind that this is a relatively early build, Dec 66, San Jose.
I'm moving forward with replating what I have in zinc - based on reading many posts recommending using original parts over reproduction (proof that I'm still able to learn :D)
John
***Update - reloaded pictures***
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First thanks for the picture
A couple of thoughts
Keep in mind that this is a relatively early build, Dec 66, San Jose.
That would make it a mid year 67 ;)
Sorry for the delay...here is info on the shocks:
Autolite, Made in Canada, C7ZF-18080-C1, T6LE R AR (refer to picture)
Interesting that you found those shocks on a San Jose car. We most often IMHO find those on Dearborn and NJ cars as well as service replacements. Wonder, with that mileage if they had been replaced at some point
I'm moving forward with replating what I have in zinc - based on reading many posts recommending using original parts over reproduction (proof that I'm still able to learn :D)
Your choice as always and since it appears to go against the general recommendations I would make a few copies of the pictures you posted here so you can try and show why you choice the zinc finish if you plan on showing the car
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Yes...mid year. What was I thinking ???
I did give some thought to the possibility of service replacements, but that did not make sense for these reasons:
1. Warranties were short in those good old days, perhaps 12,000 miles for things such as this, no?
2. If the shocks failed before the short warranty was out, then Ford service replacements with a C7ZA part number would make perfect sense.
3. If the shocks failed after the warranty, much more likely, what percentage of people would go to a Ford dealer rather than the trusty old corner garage, resulting in an off brand part?
4. For those that would go back to Ford, what are the chances of getting C7ZA parts and not a newer part that fits multiple applications/years?
5. The icing on the cake is one interpretation of the date code. I figure that the T6LE is it. I'm not sure about the "T", but I'm assuming (dangerous I know, but I also can rely on someone correcting it :o) that the 6 is 1966, L is November, E is 5th week (and there was a 5th week in Nov of that year, I checked). This is just over 3 weeks before the vehicle build date of Dec 20 1966 (20M).
What are the chances of getting replacements that are that close and just prior to the build date?
Should we at this point move over to the suspension category?
John
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John -- can you reload the Excel? There appear to be issues with it. Or my shop PC.
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John -- can you reload the Excel? There appear to be issues with it. Or my shop PC.
I missed this thread. Nice find Bill ;)
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I missed this thread. Nice find Bill ;)
I do have Jim's spreadsheets on the shop PC, so an alternative is to simply open it up and search for keywords. However, what I think is a key word and what Ford thinks is a key word is sometimes at odds.
The Assembly Manuals are great here as I can do a picture search. If I can figure out if the item is chassis or engine or ?
The MPC is also invaluable.
But the 67 SJ cars are at odds with all of them at times so pictures and as-assembled cars are the only way.
Or just buy a parts car made within weeks of yours ;)
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Challenge with 67 is all the 100 or so running changes no matter what manual or documents you use. If your building a Shelby add another 50 or so. And the really fun part is that almost never did two of the changes take place at the same time ::)