ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: Jays66gt on May 06, 2012, 07:41:42 PM
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I've done a lot of research to find out the tell tale signs of a true factory GT versus a dealer made car, or an owner that took it upon him/herself to make their Mustang a GT. So here is my list and answers. So is it likely that I have a real GT?
Square snubber plate above pumpkin: YES
All were A or K code: Mine is an A code
GT production didn't start until late February of 65: Mine is dated Sept. 1965
Dual exhaust through the rear valance with trim rings: NO (weird but true)
Reinforcement exhaust hanger plates were on the inside of the car behind the rear seat: YES
Rear brake hose located further outboard to clear pipes: unknown
Rear bumper guards deleted, and mounting holes in trunk plugged: NO (again weird but true)
Rocker panel trim and quarter ornament deleted: YES
Regular Mustang badges were deleted form the front fenders (Except engine designation): YES
Special rocker panel stripe with "MUSTANG" lettering on front fender: YES GT badges on front fenders: YES
Quicker 16:1 ratio steering box with tag reading either HCC-AX or HCC-AW: I cannot locate a tag to verify
Larger diameter sway bar (13/16"): YES
Heavier front and rear springs: ?
Heavy duty shocks: ?
Front 4-piston disc brakes and larger master cylinder: YES
Unique "GT" gas cap: YES
Fog lamp switch wiring reversed from 65 with 2 male and 1 female connector: Not verified
Circuit breaker mounted on the wiper motor bracket: not verified
Standard grill was used and had brackets added on (As well as blacked out without chrome leading edges): YES
Radiator support now punched for lamp wiring: YES
Rear lights operate when fog lights are turned on: YES
I do have a 1965 edition of the rally pack setup installed. Is it possible this could be a left over as my car is a September '65 car?
I don't plan to show the car this is just my curiosity getting the better of me. I love my car, no matter what. But I'd like the opinions of an expert or three here!
Thanks,
Jay
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Does your car have the dual exhaust tip hangers holes? They are a pair of holes thru the rear frame rail just to the rear of the tie down plate holes and in front of the shackle bushing hole. The tie down plate holes are horizontal, the exhaust hanger holes are vertical, plus there is a crush plate you can feel if you stick a finger in the assembly line tooling hole in the frame rail. If those two sets of holes are not there, it cannot be a GT.
Jim
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Think pics of the dual exhaust reinforcements and the snubber plate would be required to answer your questions correctly.
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Picture of the snubber plate:
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Picture of the exhaust hanger area. I can feel a vertical piece if I stick my finger in the big hole which is located just above the rear spring shackle.
Front to back on the car is left to right as you are viewing the picture. Top is top and bottom is bottom.
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And my steering box is a HCC-AX. Tag was so dirty I didn't know it was a tag!
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Rear brake hose located further outboard to clear pipes: unknown
Why would this be an unknown? Is it in the location shown in this picture?
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/gjz30075/Mustang/02-11-07-6.jpg)
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I didn't know what to look for... ;D
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And mine looks identical to your underside. Although my exhaust system is installed. The hangers for the exhaust are bolted to just to the outboard of those plates that are installed next to the driveshaft.
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Aha! I figured out this photoshop stuff. I've circled the tab that is spot welded to the floor where the brake lines (hard and soft) meet. This is the tab that is moved more outboard so the soft line doesn't interfere with the exhaust.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/gjz30075/underside.jpg)
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i call it my prostrate check. frame rail gussets should be there on all fact dual exh cars. even 69 mach1's have them. just gotta watchout for restored cars that had rear frame rail replacement. usually that little gusset isn't put inside the frame rail before welding is done.
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frame rail gussets should be there on all fact dual exh cars.
The 64.5-65 transverse and 65 Arvinode K codes didn't have them.
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Remember that confirmation relays on not just what should be there but any features that should not be there.
Remember the vast majority of cars have gone through allot of changes since new - yes even those who's owners swear that they never were changed ;)
Looking at your list your have ? at Springs. You can check the short leaf on the rears to help figure out unless they have been changed
Also consider that the multiple trim pieces that should not be there - their mounting holes should not be there either nor signs of repair/elimination in those locations also ;)
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Here's a couple of pictures I "borrowed" from an e-bay sale for a set of "Dual Exhaust" parts including the frame rails. Inside the frame rail (first pic, second item from left) you can see three "tubes" going across the rail. The closest "tube" is where the rear shackle upper bushings bolt into, the next is the two "tubes" for dual exhaust mounting (they are vertical but only the top tube is visible) and in the front is the rear tube for shipping tie down pair.
In the lower right hand corner are the two mounting brackets from the frame rail to mount the insulators for the rear exhaust mounts. The other items are the four bolts for the mounting brackets, two hanger pieces that aren't used in dual exhaust installations and the two mounting plates for the rear of the mufflers installed from inside the car.
The second picture attemps to show the two vertical tubes.
Jim
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... two hanger pieces that aren't used in dual exhaust installations...
Those are '65 parking brake cable retainer brackets, outers.
Again, the rear frame rail reinforcements only apply to dual exhaust cars built after around mid to late March '65. K codes before then (there were no GT A codes at the time), did not have that style rear hanger, nor the reinforcements in the frame rail.
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Those are '65 parking brake cable retainer brackets, outers.
Again, the rear frame rail reinforcements only apply to dual exhaust cars built after around mid to late March '65. K codes before then (there were no GT A codes at the time), did not have that style rear hanger, nor the reinforcements in the frame rail.
The original post was for a Sept 65 build 66 Mustang "A" code so most of the replies were based on that criteria, and again, if you do not have those crush plate tubes in the frame rails, you do not have a factory "A" code GT. I have a friend with a 66 Shelby under restoration that had the rear frame rails replaced and the body guy did put in a pair of crush plates in the replacements (maybe the old ones?).
You are correct about the 65 parking brake retainers.
Jim
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If you had read all the posts, you would know my first reply regarding the rear frame rail reinforcements was due to the statement that "all dual exhaust cars" had it.
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how was the rear tailpipes supported on a 64.5 k with transverse?
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how was the rear tailpipes supported on a 64.5 k with transverse?
Different style hangers at the rear, bolts threaded directly into the side of the frame rail. Guessing the later style was the "improved" version.
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if i see the fella ( from saskatchewan)with the 64.5 k convert at the international show this labour day i'll do the prostrate check. ( on the car!) .
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Picture of the snubber plate:
The original poster never got an answer to his question. Is there something ' GT ' about his pinion snubber plate and bumper that the other models didn't have ? Is this another method to identify a factory GT ? Thanks, Brian
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A HP GT maybe. The snubber plate for an "A" code non-GT is the same. It depended on the rear axle being a 8 inch or 9 inch.
Jim
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The original poster never got an answer to his question.
Not sure of the question he asked a little over four years ago. Reading through his posts I see a report of what he found followed by additional pictures and findings. Looks like the discussion took a right turn to discuss early 65 production
Are you referring to the "So is it likely that I have a real GT?" Possibly but since the car has been altered over the years no way IMHO to tell from a distance
Is there something ' GT ' about his pinion snubber plate and bumper that the other models didn't have ?
Differences but not related to the GT package
Is this another method to identify a factory GT ?
The determination is made IMHO through a process of discovery and findings including what should be there and what should not be there. No one or even a dozen things that would prove to a certainty. And if there was posting a full list publically would also serve as a guide to those wishing to convert and possible deceive others :(
Just an opinion and concern
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Boy that was fast. The OP seem to think " square snubber plate " was a qualifier for a GT. Charles asked him to post a picture. The OP posted the picture and as you said the conversation took a right turn and the snubber plate was not mentioned again. So... No nothing special about the snubber plate. Would have been stock on all 65 A code cars. Thanks,Brian
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if there was posting a full list publically would also serve as a guide to those wishing to convert and possible deceive others :(
Just an opinion and concern
+1
Although there are several sites giving guidance, none are complete. There are a couple things that I would immediately zero in on that are not generally known. Jeff if right, it's a combination of what is there and what isn't.
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............. Would have been stock on all 65 A code cars.
Guess we should address this first. The OP was asking about a 66 car (Sept 65 build - 6R07A105XXX)
.........The OP posted the picture and as you said the conversation took a right turn and the snubber plate was not mentioned again. So... No nothing special about the snubber plate. ..............
The plate he posted appears to be the style with the pointed rear corners - as opposed to the rounded corner style or one of the others. Back edge is not flat so not really a square version
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-220716195815.jpeg)
The snubber plate is the same as I've seen on other 66 GT's
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That is what is on mine. The rubber is bolted to the plate, not the bracket on the differential
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That is what is on mine. The rubber is bolted to the plate, not the bracket on the differential
With the possibility of the tread taking another hard right turn -
Is your car unrestored? Could the bumper have been added by a PO? Of course since yours now has a bumper installed in the snubber we can't have you check for thread as we would otherwise
Since that is not normal nor expected for a K code. Completely different as you might realize ;)
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With the possibility of the tread taking another hard right turn -
Is your car unrestored? Could the bumper have been added by a PO? Of course since yours now has a bumper installed in the snubber we can't have you check for thread as we would otherwise
Since that is not normal nor expected for a K code. Completely different as you might realize ;)
I bought the car from the original owner and he didn't restore anything. When I did an undercarriage clean up, I left it alone. I have seen a few other pictures including this thread of the rubber mounted to the plate. I agree it may go against what is thought to be normal but considering this part is out of the way and really doesn't do much unless you're driving with the Dukes of Hazard, I don't see why owners would bother to change it. Mine was built in Metuchen known to occasionally stray from the norm ???
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............., I don't see why owners would bother to change it. Mine was built in Metuchen known to occasionally stray from the norm ???
I've seen owners take off the pinion mounted one (the bracket and bumper) and place a bumper in the upper/floor mount on their K code just because they were uncertain and because their buddies car or one in a magazine article had one mounted there. Asked one one time why and their response was that if Ford didn't want you to mount a bumper there they wouldn't have put holes in the bracket to mount that bumper ::)
Just offering another view on an "out of the ordinary" finding
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I've seen owners take off the pinion mounted one (the bracket and bumper) and place a bumper in the upper/floor mount on their K code just because they were uncertain and because their buddies car or one in a magazine article had one mounted there. Asked one one time why and their response was that if Ford didn't want you to mount a bumper there they wouldn't have put holes in the bracket to mount that bumper ::)
Just offering another view on an "out of the ordinary" finding
I agree with what you're saying about people copying what they see in pictures but for at least my example, I have only recently cleaned it after 35+ years and knowing the original owner attempted zero restoration, I can safely rule that out. Could have been installed during a service trip in the 60's or 70's but I don't see why anyone would bother. Another guess is that assembly line workers were so accustomed to mounting these to 8" plates that when a 9" rolled down the line and they could do what they were doing most of the time, they would out of habit bolt one on....?
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I've seen owners take off the pinion mounted one (the bracket and bumper) and place a bumper in the upper/floor mount on their K code just because they were uncertain and because their buddies car or one in a magazine article had one mounted there. Asked one one time why and their response was that if Ford didn't want you to mount a bumper there they wouldn't have put holes in the bracket to mount that bumper ::)
Just offering another view on an "out of the ordinary" finding
I was speaking with Fred Ballard tonight and the topic of pinion snubbers came up. He told me he's seen this before on a few Metuchen K cars. All GT's had the same build up but 9" cars should have had this deleted so as not to interfere with the other bumper.