ConcoursMustang Forums
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: RichardM68 on August 24, 2024, 10:22:55 AM
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Hello,
I own 8F02J166xxx. A lot has been replaced on the car with AM parts by the PO. I'm trying to get back to date matching. I found a car whose build date is one week from mine, but it's a Metuchen car. So my question is, how close would date codes be between the two? Mainly, I thinking about sheet metal, but also rear end, etc.
Thanks,
-Richard
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You should check out date codes in the library section of this site. You will find your answers there and you will learn a lot along the way.
Good hunting. If you cannot find your answers, please ask again.
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Hi. Thanks for the tip. I looked on the main page, and I don't see anything that says library or date codes. Would you provide a link please? It sounds exactly like what I need.
Thanks,
-Richard
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As long as you are a Member, you should be able to scroll down to the Heading "Library & Links - Articles, documents and links to assist the restorer - Members Only Viewing".
https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?board=22.0
Bob
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Thanks Bob. I scrolled so fast I just went right past the "Library" link.
The only thing I found that was relevant was the "Decoding Date Codes" PDF. I've see this before and it's great info, but it doesn't tell me if a Metuchen car built the same week as mine is very likely to have the same date codes as my Dearborn car. Am I not seeing a different article that you're thinking about?
What I would love to have, and I know this isn't practical, is a list of build dates, per assembly plant, that for each build date lists the range of date codes of each part. With that data I could get a really good idea of the original date codes for my car. I know I'll likely never be exact, but at least I can say that a preponderance of evidence suggests I have the correct date codes.
Thanks,
-Richard
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Just check the date codes on your car, then check the parts car and see if they are close.
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Just check the date codes on your car, then check the parts car and see if they are close.
But those codes should be before, not after, and get a Marti Report - https://www.martiauto.com/index.cfm3
In general, all body parts date codes should be at least a week before the actual vehicle build date (You get that from the Marti Report). One major exception is the engine. Its components will have their own build date before the engine's build date, which should be a week before the vehicle's.
Jim
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Interesting that you found a NJ car that was in good enough condition to be used or considered as a candidate
The only thing I found that was relevant was the "Decoding Date Codes" PDF. I've see this before and it's great info, but it doesn't tell me if a Metuchen car built the same week as mine is very likely to have the same date codes as my Dearborn car. Am I not seeing a different article that you're thinking about?
No they likely would not. Guess you pulled a Marti report on both or have copies of them. Just want you to be comparing apple- apples since the door tag date means little in these cases. Body panels and other parts were sent in lots or pallets so all or a potion of a day of stamping would be sent to one plant where one later in the week or weeks would be sent to a different plant. We see these patterns, of a dozen to two dozen same date stamped parts, show up in a fair tight group when you graph them out. Example I was able to "guess" the exact original date on a friends fender for his car this last week since there was a grouping of a dozen or two cars on record of having that date. This even without exact date build date (pre 67) for each car. Does not always work out this well but sometimes it does. If nothing else can get pretty close which for me is pretty remarkable given how old these cars are. Just need the data in the records
What I would love to have, and I know this isn't practical, is a list of build dates, per assembly plant, that for each build date lists the range of date codes of each part. With that data I could get a really good idea of the original date codes for my car. I know I'll likely never be exact, but at least I can say that a preponderance of evidence suggests I have the correct date codes.
Yes that would make things easy but that isn't, normally, how this endeavor works. :) Also what we have requires lots of data and unfortunately cars from certain plants did not fair that well over the years so we collect less data from those plants.
A list, as you mentioned would have to be constructed for each day of production. Right now I use a spread sheet for these purposes as mentioned. As far as a list I've not even compiled a list of all the thousands of parts that had date codes that make up the unibody. Especially when you look at every body style and changes between the years in what made up the uni-body
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That's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks Jeff. I wasn't aware that the body panels were round-robin'd between the plants in that way. That being said, yes, I agree that the dates likely wouldn't match, hence making this a poor choice for a parts car.
I don't know where the car lived most of its life, but from the description and pictures, it had enough original parts to make me consider buying it. I'd replace the parts with AM parts, and restore the donor car. I keep my eyes open for "F" cars with close VIN's, The ad didn't list the VIN, but the seller included a picture of the Marti report, with the last 6 of the VIN redacted, but it listed the dates. This is the closest I've found, but unfortunately it's a different assembly plant.
Yes, very impractical indeed. But imagine a website where I enter my build date, and assembly plant, and it returns a list of date codes for every date stamped part. I can dream!
Thanks again,
-Richard
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That's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks Jeff. I wasn't aware that the body panels were round-robin'd between the plants in that way. That being said, yes, I agree that the dates likely wouldn't match, hence making this a poor choice for a parts car.
If you still have panels where the date codes are visible on your car you might at least try and check to see if those same panels on the donor car match as far as date codes go or are very close.
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Just browsing this topic
So all sheet metal was stamped at one plant and shipped out to the difference factory's
So would the date codes be all over the place
So let say his car January'built how close would the dates be on the sheet metal or is it like engines where the date codes can be up to 3 months prior to build date of car
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Just browsing this topic
So all sheet metal was stamped at one plant and shipped out to the difference factory's
Yes each piece or almost every piece is stamped with a date code during the stamping process, cast parts are cast with some form of date code also most of the time. This process is carried out at dozens of different stamping and casting plants as well as sometimes contractors locations. Once finished they are shipped to the car assembly plants for use on building cars or shipped to a location that distributes the parts to dealerships for use in repairing or selling to the public or businesses like body shops
So would the date codes be all over the place
The location of the stamping/casting dates was pretty standardized since they often used ingots that dropped in a prepared holder that designated the date for that run of parts being made that day. When they remade the large dies they could and sometimes did relocate the location of these holders based on the design and choices made by the workers in charge of designing them
So let say his car January'built how close would the dates be on the sheet metal or is it like engines where the date codes can be up to 3 months prior to build date of car
There can often be oddities where dates are have a greater spread than others. Often IMO those larger spreads do not reflect random factors but are the results of things we don't know or are unaware of. Supply of material, transportation or union issues at both Ford and suppliers plants. As far as dates I believe there are ranges where currently few if any are going to question the date while at the same time I believe that commonly the dates are much tighter given the patterns we see after collecting the data.
Getting into the tall grass for those interested. If not shot reading here :) Hope this helped expain
May choose to cut and paste the description below into another thread on date coding for more eyes
Often it appears that if you can gather enough data you can sometimes identify shipments of stamped sheet metal sent to a specific car assembly plant and relate that to cars being assembled during a period or range. Having the real completion date for the 67 and up cars helps a lot
To illustrate at one car plant the fastback passenger side trunk hinge support had dates of
- 12R5 C2 Also seen during this time period 12R4 C2 and 12R6 C2. IMO likely all shipped in the same shipment
Decoded- Dec 5th - for right hand side - Cleveland Stamping plant - second shift
- Take notice that all were stamped on the same shift so possibly they were collected and all loaded into the same shipment to the car plant.
- And we have found them on cars being completed from Dec 12 to Dec 21 and Jan 24th to Feb 2nd
- Prior to this period we find a group of fastbacks. Same hinge support with a stamping code of 5C3. Since this is a different pattern it may suggest that a second panel stamper was used to produce more of these panels to fill the order for that specific car assembly plant and also take note that these panels were stamped on the third shift. Because of that I would speculate that they were placed in another container or strapped to a different pallet and include in the shipment with the second shifts panels. Once at the car plant a group of panels from the second shift was used on the line then when those ran low the shipment produced by the third shift was moved forward and when those were close to being used the third batch - again panels from the second shift was used to build new Mustang fastbacks.
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Hi
Thanks for that
Was looking at a friend's 70 mach 1 and my 70 mach1
His car was built 8 days before mine
Some of dates match each other
But a lot of his dates where 2 months before build and a lot of date my car where one month early or the same month as build date
I was wondering why such a big spread between 2 cars built 8 days apart
That why I asked if sheet metal dates was like the engine parts dates September heads October intake august block
A 3 month split
Cheers
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Hi
Thanks for that
Was looking at a friend's 70 mach 1 and my 70 mach1
His car was built 8 days before mine
Some of dates match each other
But a lot of his dates where 2 months before build and a lot of date my car where one month early or the same month as build date
I was wondering why such a big spread between 2 cars built 8 days apart
That why I asked if sheet metal dates was like the engine parts dates September heads October intake august block
A 3 month split
Cheers
Same plant, same engine, same transmission?
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Hi
Yes same plant
Both 351 cars a m code and a h code
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Hi
Yes same plant
Both 351 cars a m code and a h code
Both unrestored and not repainted?
Especially after all these years and with possible repairs parts, especially bolt on ones are replace with "better" ones as owners freshen, repair and restore their cars. Even on a fair number of those "unrestored cars" you see on the internet or in older magazines.
Not saying that we don't find dates at are "out of range" often enough. Could be the one or two that were in the crate sitting at the station that were left when a new batch were bumped in the same crate. Or a new holder was moved to the station and the handful from the earlier batch were tossed into or somewhere in the pile to be grabbed a week or two, later. Add to the mix that you had body style specific panels where a batch/shipment would last longer than say panels that were the same for all body types and produced (for example) in quantities 50 times greater.
When recording dates from unrestored cars its not unusual to find one or two panels out of the hundred or more collected but over all they do tend to form somewhat of a pattern when looked at all the data collected.
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They have been restored
So the batches of date codes panel can be in two different batches of date codes using a old batch left overs and the the new batch of sheet metal if they used up the sheet metal
Up
Have you work out a date pattern on 70 mustangs
Barry
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Have you work out a date pattern on 70 mustangs
No not really anything I would consider substantial. Too difficult to collect a good percentage of dates from things like panels on a fully assembled car. Also there were less 70's built that other years in comparison. Can get luck with some of the easier to view locations to get an idea of what would be possible or maybe likely but no where near the volume as I have for other years and plants but sometimes we get luck
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Hi
Thanks for the help
Date codes could be close to the build date or spread out over a couple of months depending on if it was a common part shared by all 3 bodies style or a unique part just for one model
Eg tail light panel compared to a rear quarter
And also if there was 2 bins with the same part they could grab the part from either bin but it be too different date codes one close and one early
Cheers
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And also if there was 2 bins with the same part they could grab the part from either bin but it be too different date codes one close and one early
Cheers
In many examples were was not room on or along side (handy) of the assembly line to have more than one bin, cage, box or what ever to be in place its just about how the bin that was there was refilled or replaced by a fresh one. We'll never be able to figure out how each part was held while waiting but IMO how they could have been handled helps explain some of the oddities we see in date code patterns
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Ok cheers
So they just topping up the bins when a parts lots came and that's how you could get a wide range of date codes on some cars
Cheers