ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Alpha1946 on May 23, 2011, 12:20:51 PM
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Does anyone have a source for the fabric sleeve that covers the wire harness from dash to tail lights for 64 1/2 Convertible built in June 1964 in Dearborn? Thanks for any suggestions.
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It is woven on over the wires, have not found a source that sells a replacement covering.
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At one time Ken Rubin at Alloy Metal products would recover your tail light harness with the correct material. He is no longer with us and I do not know if the folks running his company now will still offer that service. Pat White in Texas also could duplicate that covering, but check on his past performance and then decide if you want to use his service. It is cheaper and probably better to purchase a reproduction from Alloy Metal Products and replace your original. It is almost impossible to tell it is a reproduction other than your new one will be in perfect shape. There is, as far as I know, no covering that can be installed over your harness that even resembles the original.
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Jim Thayer was Ken's business partner and took over Alloy when Ken passed away. Jim did tell me back a few years that he would do an occasional harness restoration, but it's not something they normally offer (as far as I know.)
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There's more to this than meets the eye. The original woven material was made out of cotton, and OSHA (I think that is them) banned it for this use due to its flammability. I've contacted several wire and loom manufacturers and they will not provide cotton looming. The replacement looming that I have looked at doesn't appear close to the original. The other issue is that the looming is first applied to the raw wires, and then the connectors are molded onto the pins. If you look carefully, the original looming is worked back inside itself where wires break out. I've tried once to cut the wires so I could slip the looming back on and then resplice the wires with the looming covering the splice---couldn't do it.
One person went to RI Wiring (http://www.riwire.com/ (http://www.riwire.com/)) and had his tailight harness re-loomed. I did not find out how much it cost, but I'm sure it was at least $200 if not substantially more. http://www.homeprofasteners.com/index.php?route=common/home (http://www.homeprofasteners.com/index.php?route=common/home) is another source for asphalt-impregnated looming, but it is too stiff to use on anything but a single wire where you can remove the pin from the connector to slip the sleeving over the wire.
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I've wanted to buy a used braiding machine to do this sort of thing but haven't found one yet for a price I'm willing to pay. I believe the used market is strong so I may never find one...
Some machines, pictures here:
http://www.gladdingbraid.com/marketplace.php
Might be able to get this same place to re-braid your harness or make a slip over cover for you, although you'd probably have to specify materials, etc. or provide a good sample:
http://www.gladdingbraid.com/harness_braiding.php
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I would like to thank all of you that replied and for your help.
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There is three companies I have come across out there that will take your original wire harness and wrap a new cloth covering on for you. Its not something you can purchase and do yourself properly....its actually woven on and around your harness with a special machine. Ideally you would want to give them a sample they can match for color and weave pattern.
Rhode Island Wiring Service:
http://www.riwire.com/ (http://www.riwire.com/)
Narragansett Reproductions:
http://www.narragansettreproductions.com/wiring-harness.html (http://www.narragansettreproductions.com/wiring-harness.html)
YNZ Yesterdays Parts:
http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/contact_us.htm (http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/contact_us.htm)
Turn around is typically 2 to 4 weeks and they charge about $5 a foot plus a setup charge and if they need to take your old stuff off they will charge for that as well.
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There's more to this than meets the eye. The original woven material was made out of cotton, and OSHA (I think that is them) banned it for this use due to its flammability. I've contacted several wire and loom manufacturers and they will not provide cotton looming. The replacement looming that I have looked at doesn't appear close to the original. The other issue is that the looming is first applied to the raw wires, and then the connectors are molded onto the pins. If you look carefully, the original looming is worked back inside itself where wires break out. I've tried once to cut the wires so I could slip the looming back on and then resplice the wires with the looming covering the splice---couldn't do it.
One person went to RI Wiring (http://www.riwire.com/ (http://www.riwire.com/)) and had his tailight harness re-loomed. I did not find out how much it cost, but I'm sure it was at least $200 if not substantially more. http://www.homeprofasteners.com/index.php?route=common/home (http://www.homeprofasteners.com/index.php?route=common/home) is another source for asphalt-impregnated looming, but it is too stiff to use on anything but a single wire where you can remove the pin from the connector to slip the sleeving over the wire.
I just contacted Rhode Island wiring and spent a pleasant 15 minutes talking about Ford wiring.
I supply a sample of the loom and they match it. Some coverings had cotton, indicated by a thicker strand(s) running back on the harness.
Today's cost is a setup fee of $7 (seven dollars) and $4.50 a foot for the cover.
If they have to remove the cover it's at a dollar per hour rate. They suggested I remove it and re-tape the harness at the factory locations since by now the original friction tape is old and brittle.
Sounds like a deal.
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Be careful what covering they weave over it. The black covering seems to be most common but it is not like original factory and stands out so much as wrong compared to original it may be points deducted. I understand that there are some color alternatives. Just stay away from black which is what typically comes on the repro wiring harness's.
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I've seen Rhode Island Wiring harnesses (a 53 Plymouth Cranbrook Convertible) and was impressed. They specialize in 1960 and earlier cars, but they seem interested in later years to expand their product line. In all transactions with an unknown vendor, get samples, get referrals, get prices. I've used many of their component parts - contacts, splices, sleeves, etc.
Jim
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I was going to send the vendor of choice my Ford harness and have it covered. They also requested a sample.
However, in another moment of "huh, I always thought it was ..." I did think it was lighter black and really faded.
But my original harness is khaki green and hunter green (says the wife who deals with colors a lot). The harness out of my parts car is the same. The colors alternate in bands lengthwise along the harness.
What colors have you guys found on 67 SJ cars? Since most of these vendors tend to work on older cars, is there an earlier Ford that used this same color weave (whatever it may be)?
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Apologies for the later post but I also have the 64.5 convertible wire conundrum. Plus there seems no real closure.
Targeting Concours Driven, and I want to get on the road.
I see where NPD offer fabric wrap in two styles. "OE" and "Self wrapping OE appearance"
Each of these look to be impregnated with some tar like material
Is there experience out there with either of these? Mostly concerned OE type will mean a wire cut, tugging on of the wrap, and splice. (I would try to do this mid run rather than terminal). Dealing with aforementioned mid-run, through-weave splits and connections sounds impossible- more of a stop-wrap-restart wrap?
The "self-wrapping" likely has a slit but I am unsure how well it closes. Soft heat gun?
How do judges even view this re-wrap. Am I better off leaving my ratty but 90% covered harnesses in place? (most still have Fomoco paper tags)
Opinions?
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Apologies for the later post but I also have the 64.5 convertible wire conundrum. Plus there seems no real closure.
Targeting Concours Driven, and I want to get on the road.
I see where NPD offer fabric wrap in two styles. "OE" and "Self wrapping OE appearance"
Each of these look to be impregnated with some tar like material
Is there experience out there with either of these? Mostly concerned OE type will mean a wire cut, tugging on of the wrap, and splice. (I would try to do this mid run rather than terminal). Dealing with aforementioned mid-run, through-weave splits and connections sounds impossible- more of a stop-wrap-restart wrap?
The "self-wrapping" likely has a slit but I am unsure how well it closes. Soft heat gun?
How do judges even view this re-wrap. Am I better off leaving my ratty but 90% covered harnesses in place? (most still have Fomoco paper tags)
Opinions?
I suppose you need to be more specific on which wiring harness you are referring to. The taillight harness for instance has a weaved thread material .The engine harness is wrapped in a black tape. In concours driven most likely a color difference in the weave which has been discussed previously in other posts like the repro black weave vs original dark hunter green would be over looked. The condition of the weave would be most important in that situation. The black wrap used on the engine compartment harness's would need to be wrapped with a near factory like precision and workmanship and there should be no deduction. The repro black wrapped harness's are typically acceptable in that instance. Most re tape wrap the original engine harness after making repairs and cleaning. Of course if one doesn't want to go to the trouble or they feel the harness is damaged too much then a new repro is just a 1 800 number away.
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If you really, really, really want the original wrap you have to source the threads and send enough of the two different color threads to RI Wire.
Good luck finding the right colors as dark hunter green is not a stocking color.
Also, there is a size and number of "winds" to each thread.
BTW, the weave/wrap can applied after the connectors and plugs are already on as it's not a sleeve but a merry-go-round weaving machine where you pull the wire up through the center of the merry-go-round and pull out any wires you don't want in the wrap. The operator starts/stops the machine to do the pull-outs.
Here is a pic of what I believe to be a very close approximation of the correct color after RI Wire did my rear loom.
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Engine compartment is completed. No significant issues, only a few re-wraps with black wrap.
Under dash harnesses likewise were just a bit shaggy at terminus.
My question relates to the taillight/backup/fuel sender harness and the convertible hydro pump wire wraps.
Bossbill, pix not linked. I am reluctant to take the time right now to pull the dash for the top pump wire and driver sill for the tail harness back apart to send out for re-weaving at this exact time but good to hear of your experience. I am in the textile industry and might hunt for the proper yarn weight and color. Black and Hunter green? Mine of course have faded with time. Have you been scored since the work was done?
Very tempted to go with an NPD product to get rolling . Or leave them in some shaggy but original condition with some new plastic, removable conduit I might remove for judging.
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Bossbill, pix not linked.
Wonder if others have issue seeing the pic.
Black and Hunter green? Mine of course have faded with time.
Hunter dark green and paper. RI Wire has the paper in house. I opted for a more durable thread that emulates dirty paper, and is more on the khaki side of the color.
Have you been scored since the work was done?
I've shown pics to judges who thought it looked much better than black.
If concours driven, Bob says no points taken off for black . If trailered you would have to ask.
What are trying to do is get the hue or overall tone correct. We also have to remember that over time the paper took on all sorts of colors from moisture.
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In concours trailered when judging I have deducted for the black weave on taillight harness's instead of the hunter green in the same way I would deduct for a black paint on engine blocks that were supposed to be blue.
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In concours trailered when judging I have deducted for the black weave on taillight harness's instead of the hunter green in the same way I would deduct for a black paint on engine blocks that were supposed to be blue.
+1
Like most details this does not a deduction of all the points but a portion of the total based on (in total) all the features and details leaving room for another car that has more or all of the details correct. :)
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:Sorry, didn't mean to misstate what Bob said.
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Bill, is the covering you got from RIW from their stock after seeing the sample from your car ?