ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: dkknab on August 24, 2023, 07:57:24 PM
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I could not find much about the switch attachment to the under side of the dash panel so I thought I'd share what I have looking for any thoughts.
Apparently there are pan head screws that attach the fog light switch to the dash. I've ordered some from NPD but that is not what I have at all.
In my case, instead of two screws I only need one screw and mine is a hex head dichromate screw that is screwed into a metal piece instead of a nut as is shown in the assembly manual. I am guess there must have been a change along the line that was not completely documented in the assembly manual. Thoughts?
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David,
Just to see "if", check Ford Car Part (aka MPC).
Jim
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David,
Just to see "if", check Ford Car Part (aka MPC).
Jim
Hi Jim, not sure what you mean. To elaborate what I see, on page 53 of Electrical Assembly Manual, the picture shows a screw and nut item nr 5 attaching the switch to the dash board with a second screw and bolt right next to it attaching the wire clip to the dash. On mine there is just the one bolt and fast nut attached to the clip holding it all together.
There must have been a change down the road to eliminate the two phillips head screw bolts and nuts to just the one.
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Hi Jim, not sure what you mean. To elaborate what I see, on page 53 of Electrical Assembly Manual, the picture shows a screw and nut item nr 5 attaching the switch to the dash board with a second screw and bolt right next to it attaching the wire clip to the dash. On mine there is just the one bolt and fast nut attached to the clip holding it all together.
There must have been a change down the road to eliminate the two phillips head screw bolts and nuts to just the one.
"Ford Car Parts" (aka MPC) can be used as a "sanity check". Look up the illustration and see what part numbers are used as a service replacement. If they are the same as what you have, problem solved. If they are different, how different?
Jim
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In my case, instead of two screws I only need one screw and mine is a hex head dichromate screw that is screwed into a metal piece instead of a nut as is shown in the assembly manual. I am guess there must have been a change along the line that was not completely documented in the assembly manual. Thoughts?
The Assembly Manual only documents and shows what was used on cars built on and after (we don't know for how long) that page was put into practice on each car plant. They were not designed to document all the changes in that area they focus on for the whole year. Couldn't since none fo them were published at the end of the production year. Believe those records were included in other documents the plants had.
They can be of great help but without a list for each page with the changes made on each one as well as when each was put into practice it does mean that we have to guess or trust. The pages that Jim included in the Assembly Manuals is only moment in time so yes there could have been a change or many changes and this is why we try and dig deeper or maybe the better term would be wider by looking at as many unrestored to help us with the answers we seek. The challenge is that we don't always have enough or many examples and collecting the data/facts on these smaller, least seen details is a challenge.
Don't recall seeing a picture of that area for a 68 but will make an effort to take a look and will report back if I have something to offer
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This is our unrestored 68 HCS. 6-17-68 San Jose build
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This is our unrestored 68 HCS. 6-17-68 San Jose build
Thanks Marty. Looks like you have the pan head screw that seems typical if you order the install kit. Do you have a speed nut or nut with star washer on the other side?
I've ordered the pan head screws and nuts. When I get them should I replace my hex nut with the pan head nut that seems more correct?
Any others with a 68 Metuchen built car with fog lights who can share a picture of their switch?
Thanks again.
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According to my spreadsheet for 67-68 Mustangs based on the "1968 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual" (AM0023 pg53), one screw 50514-S36 is used to attach the fog lamp switch AND 381726-S100 CLIP to the underside of the dash with nut 34653-S36, and a second screw and nut are used for the same RELOCATED fog lamp wiring clip used WITH the tilt steering wheel.
Jim
Upon further review, two screw/nut combinations are used WITHOUT the tilt wheel option. With the tilt wheel option, the wiring is moved to the right and the screw/nut that holds the switch is used, probably for tilt column clearance.
Screw 50514-S36 is 1968 unique, used for the convertible top switch and speed control switch, as well as the one or two for the fog lamps. As it is an 8-32X1/2 machine screw, substitutions are probably easy to find from other assembly line uses. Just don't reference this thread if your 68 Mustang is in the Thoroughbred Class.
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According to my spreadsheet for 67-68 Mustangs based on the "1968 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual" (AM0023 pg53), one screw 50514-S36 is used to attach the fog lamp switch AND 381726-S100 CLIP to the underside of the dash with nut 34653-S36, and a second screw and nut are used for the same RELOCATED fog lamp wiring clip used WITH the tilt steering wheel.
Jim
And here's the page from the assembly manual. But it looks like 2 screws are used when swing/tilt column is NOT specified... line 2. Am I reading that correctly?
But is it possible for Metuchen cars, they installed the switch differently? It seems odd that a previous owner went to the trouble to replace the pan head screw and nut with hex screw and speed nut. Just saying.
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In 1968, I have seen the hex head screws with a tinnerman clip on the wiring clip for NJ assy
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Read the corrections and comments on my reply number 7 in this thread.
Jim
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So probably no reason not to use two screws attaching the switch and wire harness instead of the one hex screw I
have want to be a bit more correct and at least we can document the intent of the install given the assembly manual.
Agree?
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I think I figured out why the change though maybe not documented well. I got the 2 screws. It is flippin impossible to install them quickly. Took me half hour plus and my back is sore plus all the blood raced to my brain. I can see why they would have changed to the speed nut on one screw instead of 2 screws. Anyone else try to do the installation?
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Tip: when you are old like me always take the seat out first.
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Tip: when you are old like me always take the seat out first.
What he said.
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On a New Jersey car there is a wire loom that has a speed clip on it and a zinc dichromate Phillips head pan style machine screw screws up through the switch through the dash and into speed clip on the loom. This set up it?s also for the convertible tops switch right next to it which is why the AMK kit contain two screws and 2nuts. The wires from the respective switches are routed through the loop of the loom on the back. These looms are extremely hard to find if missing.
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On a New Jersey car there is a wire loom that has a speed clip on it and a zinc dichromate Phillips head pan style machine screw screws up through the switch through the dash and into speed clip on the loom. This set up it?s also for the convertible tops switch right next to it which is why the AMK kit contain two screws and 2nuts. The wires from the respective switches are routed through the loop of the loom on the back. These looms are extremely hard to find if missing.
On my New Jersey car, it had a speed nut and screw but the screw was a hex head sheet metal screw as pictured on the left. The screws I got from NPD work with a regular nut as pictured on the right. That pan head screw does not work with the speed nut. Is there another type speed nut that is more correct?
And should I only use one screw but not the two screws as pictured in the assembly manual?
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And should I only use one screw but not the two screws as pictured in the assembly manual?
Using what is specified in the assembly manual is the path of least resistance. That is - two screws and two hex nuts with attached star washer if you DO NOT HAVE the tilt wheel option. The use of a nut clip is "possible" because it is a New Jersey car. The question is - how do you justify that clip? And remember this, it has been 55 years.
Jim
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........The question is - how do you justify that clip? And remember this, it has been 55 years.
IMHO you continue to look for examples especially when you have people who focus on that specific plant and model year offering that they have seen similar or same details. Easy enough to change it out which ever way the evidence leads you. IMHO the Assembly Manual pages as printed are not a good stand alone resource for all cars but a last resource if no other evidence (multiple sources and findings) exists for many details.
Challenge for this particular details is that the inside of the dash area is not clearly or easily visible and this limits the available data. Sorry some details are just not easy to come by
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Here's one more bit I discovered. When I installed the second screw in the hole to the left of the switch, the screw cap pulled into the hole instead of remaining flush with the dashboard.
Thus and since it appears for NJ cars only one screw was used, I'm going to use just one pan head screw in the position that the original hex head screw was located.
Thanks for all of the info.
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I think you mis understood me. You are missing a piece. There is a zinc dichromate wiring loom that has a clip on speed nut clipped on it.
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I think you mis understood me. You are missing a piece. There is a zinc dichromate wiring loom that has a clip on speed nut clipped on it.
I guess I did misunderstand but I thought I had the two components. The clip is up under the dashboard so you can not see it in my picture. I do have a dichromate clip attached to the back of the dashboard on the same pan head screw that attaches the switch to the underside of the dashboard. The picture attached shows the switch and the wire clip not yet installed. Is this the same thing?
Are both parts to be on the one pan head screw given my NJ car?
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Yes, on the factory installation the same screw that holds the fog light switch also goes up into the wire loom.
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Yes, on the factory installation the same screw that holds the fog light switch also goes up into the wire loom.
Super. For now, we're done here. Thank you.