ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: k-code on November 29, 2021, 07:10:14 PM
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Hi,
Replacing the ring gear on my 12/18/64 built k code coupe and wondering about the ring gear and clutch.
The car currently has a 157 tooth ring gear attached to C30E-6380B, 4L7 flywheel. Looking through Mannel's book it references a 160 tooth ring gear for that period of manufacture. Is that what the car should have, a 160 tooth ring gear? My ring gear is chewed up a bit so am replacing it.
(And is it possible to find a made in USA ring gear?)
And what clutch? Mannel references a 10" and a 10.5" but I'm not sure what was stock. I'm assuming a 10" was standard and it was possible to upgrade to the Cobra kit clutch, part C3OZ‑7A537. If a 10.5" performance clutch was optional at that time, is that the best way to go? My clutch is 10" with lots of life left but while I'm in there.....
Thanks!
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Ok, I figured out the ring gear question. There was an eventual transition from 160 to 157 and the original starter worked with both.
Still looking for some clutch replacement guidance however.
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Here you go, 10 1/2 was standard for a HiPo. I never noticed before that the shop manual doesn't call out a 289 Special clutch for 65 Mustang but only 66 but they also have a 260 listed as a 65 Mustang motor so take it for what it's worth. 65 HiPo Fairlanes also used the Special clutch. You could use a 10" clutch which is easier to push in just doesn't have the same bite as a larger clutch.
C30Z 7550-F is the disc and C30Z 7563-A is the pressure plate for a HiPo
I think the -G and -B were lighter springs than the HiPo in a 10 1/2" size
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Here you go, 10 1/2 was standard for a HiPo. I never noticed before that the shop manual doesn't call out a 289 Special clutch for 65 Mustang but only 66 but they also have a 260 listed as a 65 Mustang motor so take it for what it's worth. 65 HiPo Fairlanes also used the Special clutch. You could use a 10" clutch which is easier to push in just doesn't have the same bite as a larger clutch.
C30Z 7550-F is the disc and C30Z 7563-A is the pressure plate for a HiPo
I think the -G and -B were lighter springs than the HiPo in a 10 1/2" size
Excellent, very helpful. A previous owner put a 10" in mine. Can you recommend where to find correct replacements? NDP or?
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Excellent, very helpful. A previous owner put a 10" in mine. Can you recommend where to find correct replacements? NDP or?
I don't have any specific recommendations other than to stay away from any "heavy duty" 3 finger clutches which are more likely to bend/break your z bar.
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Schiefer has both as direct HiPo replacements and can be found on Ebay from time to time.
Their disc has the correct number of springs, 8.
Just a thought if you can/t find rebuilt ones from Ford.
Texas Swede
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The 1965 Mustangs were originally available with the 260-2V V8 as an option. It was dropped early in the 1965 model year which went from April 1964 through July 1965.
Here you go, 10 1/2 was standard for a HiPo. I never noticed before that the shop manual doesn't call out a 289 Special clutch for 65 Mustang but only 66 but they also have a 260 listed as a 65 Mustang motor so take it for what it's worth. 65 HiPo Fairlanes also used the Special clutch. You could use a 10" clutch which is easier to push in just doesn't have the same bite as a larger clutch.
C30Z 7550-F is the disc and C30Z 7563-A is the pressure plate for a HiPo
I think the -G and -B were lighter springs than the HiPo in a 10 1/2" size
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Schiefer has both as direct HiPo replacements and can be found on Ebay from time to time.
Their disc has the correct number of springs, 8.
Just a thought if you can/t find rebuilt ones from Ford.
Texas Swede
I've definitely got a 10", 4 spring disc in there now (pressure plate/cover has eight).
So the car would have originally come with an 10.5" 8 spring disc? Never thought of Ford as a source for these parts. I'd thought they'd be long obsolete in their system.
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I just called my local Ford dealer and he entered C30Z 7550-F and C30Z 7563-A into his system for reman availability and both came up as invalid part #'s. So doesn't appear Ford reman is an option
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I just called my local Ford dealer and he entered C30Z 7550-F and C30Z 7563-A into his system for reman availability and both came up as invalid part #'s. So doesn't appear Ford reman is an option
That number was obsoleted decades ago. I couple years ago I had been given a number of used take off clutch assemblies . One was a 10 1/2 the rest were for bigblock. I had them rebuilt by a shop that has done that for 60 years . I sold the 10 1/2 to a forum member. If you can find a core it can be rebuilt.
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That number was obsoleted decades ago. I couple years ago I had been given a number of used take off clutch assemblies . One was a 10 1/2 the rest were for bigblock. I had them rebuilt by a shop that has done that for 60 years . I sold the 10 1/2 to a forum member. If you can find a core it can be rebuilt.
Understood. Someone suggested Ford reman so thought I'd try. Wasn't surprised at the outcome.
I'm curious, a concours restoration doesn't require an original/correct clutch, because it's not visible? Asking for a friend.
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I just called my local Ford dealer and he entered C30Z 7550-F and C30Z 7563-A into his system for reman availability and both came up as invalid part #'s. So doesn't appear Ford reman is an option
A point of reference. The third character of the Ford service number is the letter "O", as in "N", "O", "P" - not a numeric zero. The Ford guy may have corrected your error upon entry.
Jim
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............... I'm curious, a concours restoration doesn't require an original/correct clutch, because it's not visible? Asking for a friend.
Depends on what a "concours restoration" means to you or the person you may be selling to. Just like "all original" "matching numbers" and so on. Some will go as far as using NOS Ford rings and bearing in the engine while others will choose more modern parts for internals in hopes of taking advantage of modern technology. Everyone determines a line or chooses to accept someone else's the challenge is to be consistent (few are) from one area of the car to another. It's always about choices
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The 1965 Mustangs were originally available with the 260-2V V8 as an option. It was dropped early in the 1965 model year which went from April 1964 through July 1965.
It's a matter of semantics. Ford released an "early 65" Mustang in April of 1964 as a combination publicity stunt, advertising gimmick and sales pitch (by the way, it worked). To identify those early Mustangs, those that are "into them" refer to them as "64 1/2" or "1964 1/2" Mustangs (I cheat and call them 64, four less key strokes). They are distinct as they all used generators instead of alternators. The two initial body styles also had a lot of unique 64 only parts, the hood for one. Three of the initial four engines offered were unique for Mustang use, a 170 CID I-6, a 260 CID V-8 2 barrel, a 289 CID low compression V-8 4 barrel and the 289 CID V-8 High Performance - the "K" code. The HP engine was in reality, a 63-64 Fairlane engine that was introduced for sale in early June for Mustangs. The 170 I-6 and 260 V-8 engines were not used in 1965 and later Mustangs. The "low compression" 289 V-8 4 barrel was replaced by a "high compression" 289 V-8 4 barrel for 1965, 66 and 67. A 289 V-8 2 barrel was introduced in 1965. The 289 "K" engine 5 bolt attaching to the bell housing block was replaced by a 6 bolt attachment in 1965, as were the other two 289 engine options.
It's also a matter of "years". We know, but we don't want to inert confusion.
See the Mannel book.
Jim
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Understood. Someone suggested Ford reman so thought I'd try. Wasn't surprised at the outcome.
I'm curious, a concours restoration doesn't require an original/correct clutch, because it's not visible? Asking for a friend.
Depends on what a "concours restoration" means to you or the person you may be selling to. Just like "all original" "matching numbers" and so on. Some will go as far as using NOS Ford rings and bearing in the engine while others will choose more modern parts for internals in hopes of taking advantage of modern technology. Everyone determines a line or chooses to accept someone else's the challenge is to be consistent (few are) from one area of the car to another. It's always about choices
+1 .A "concours restoration" is a broad question that can mean different things to different people. This is because there are different classes with different expectations . With that said If we can't see it we can't judge it. We don't check cams for factory specs or for hipo counter balance ether. I can't imagine someone asking the question of does it have a 10 1/2 clutch and pressure plate in a concours venue. In the very unlikely situation that concours judge or enthusiast asks the question and you don't have the assemblyline assembly I would plead the fifth if you don't want the possible negative consequences. ;)
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+1 .A "concours restoration" is a broad question that can mean different things to different people. This is because there are different classes with different expectations . With that said If we can't see it we can't judge it. We don't check cams for factory specs or for hipo counter balance ether. I can't imagine someone asking the question of does it have a 10 1/2 clutch and pressure plate in a concours venue. In the very unlikely situation that concours judge or enthusiast asks the question and you don't have the assemblyline assembly I would plead the fifth if you don't want the possible negative consequences. ;)
Ok, these are good guidelines and answers for me. I bought this car in the spring. It's a excellent driver with #'s matching driveline, pretty good body, and very good documentation going back to the original owner. It is not concours by any means but as I do my repairs I want to return it, where practical, to original/concours condition. I am making the car mine, with no intention on entering it into concours events. In other words, some changes I will make as original, some will be modern improvements. But if I decide I want to make a change to original, I'll come here for guidance. Hope that makes sense and fits in with the intent of the forum.
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We're to help with the original types of questions and guidance - you make the choice. Its not all about showing at judged shows, just don't let others think that your "choices" are original or on a nicely finished car they will think they are and copy them believing that.
Have seem some owners place cards or magnetic signs on their cars at local shows stating "Don't Copy Details From This Car I Made My Choices You Make Yours" or similar wording. Just to make a point. Had one owner that I did a stamp for on a 70. Basically where the big yellow engine stamp typically says OK he had one made that showed NOT OK :)
Might have been referring to his state of mind or something else but it did serve multiple purposes
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Ha ha. Nope, not intending on making any representations of the car. It's a hobby, not a statement for me.
Do plan on the Arvinode system however as my VIN is right in the sweet spot.
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Here's a couple of details on the Arvinode frame rails. The source is unknown. My pictures were downloaded in 2013.
Also, there is a Ford drawing of the Arvinode system in "The 289 High Performance Mustang" by Tony Gregory.
Jim
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Have seem some owners place cards or magnetic signs on their cars at local shows stating "Don't Copy Details From This Car I Made My Choices You Make Yours" or similar wording. Just to make a point. Had one owner that I did a stamp for on a 70. Basically where the big yellow engine stamp typically says OK he had one made that showed NOT OK :)
Might have been referring to his state of mind or something else but it did serve multiple purposes
That's great! ;D
Hmmm...a new meme for me: "Don't copy me, I'm NOT OK".
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Here's a couple of details on the Arvinode frame rails. The source is unknown. My pictures were downloaded in 2013.
Also, there is a Ford drawing of the Arvinode system in "The 289 High Performance Mustang" by Tony Gregory.
Jim
Thanks for this. Yes I've checked the car over carefully. It measures 11" and 12" and has all the identifying characteristics: reinforced floor under the back seat for the hangers, thread holes in the frame rails etc. I have Gregory?s book which of course has the well documented error about the reinforcement inside the frame. Mine doesn't because they introduced that with the GT later on in 65.
What I don't know for sure is if my car came with the Arvinode or not. I have the original sales order and exhaust isn't mentioned which leads me to think it was equipped with the transverse duals but I'm not certain.