ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: 68 S Code on October 13, 2010, 11:14:29 AM
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What marking should I be looking for to identify an original 68 idler arm assembly. I spoke with one suspension specialist and he mentioned a C7ZE-#-B stamping and a ford logo with no zerk fittings. Another claimed markings of (MF) 68 and 14-248 stamped on bottom with a zerk fitting below the ball and socket connection. Mentioned nothing of Ford logos. Stated that 67's and earlier didn't have a zerk fitting. This is for a 68 July produced car if that makes any difference.
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Not sure if all of them had the Ford oval (others will comment) or the part number (some were pretty faint) but never seen a zert on a line idler arm
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Jeff, knowing that there was no zert is a start. Now regarding any numbers or logo that will be the next thing to get verified.
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'zerk' is the correct term.
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+1 on zerk
"The patent for the Zerk fitting was granted to Oscar Zerk in January 1929" per wiki
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For a 68 idler arm (manual or power steering) there would be no zerk fitting, the engineering number stamped on the arm and a Ford logo. I can post pictures if needed.
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Marcus a picture would answer some questions. So the logo and part number are stamped on the long arm?
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Marcus a picture would answer some questions. So the logo and part number are stamped on the long arm?
Would guess (bases on other examples) that they are debossed (raised) cast into the arm section
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Yes most suspension parts have the raised numbers. Is it possible to rebuild old used idler arms? Don't know if bushings are available from ford or aftermarket?
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Yes they can be rebuilt and bushings are available
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Here is some pictures of original idler arms where you can see the engineering numbers and the FoMoCo logos.....and pictures showing it mounted on the car looking from underneath.
Bottom of idler arm:
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/PA180361.jpg)
Top of idler arm:
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/PA180362.jpg)
And on the car....
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/PA180367.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/PA180369.jpg)
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Marcus thanks. The pics were perfect. Exactly what I needed. The installed pic was what year car as frame mounting bracket goes all the way through idler arm. aftermarket arms are different.
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The pictures show a 69 Mustang but I think this area is the same on the 68 Mustang since they use the same part.
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Marcus thanks for clearing that up. I do have a question regarding the yellow marks you have on the idler, upper ball joint stud and tie rod end. I have a similar yellow trace of paint on the top of my lower control arm ball joint stud. Did yellow denote suspension regardless of side, or as in the case of this photo did it mean passenger side yellow and the drivers side in a different color.
Jeff S mentioned that he has seen original examples where the arm which is mounted to the frame for the rear connection of the idler having two green slashes of paint between the mounting holes. With that i would think that maybe passenger side would be green and the drivers is yellow.
I know that sway bars typically had a green and yellow daub of paint. Probably signifying that yellow goes to this side and green to the opposite side. With that said was passenger side considered yellow and drivers green.
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Marcus thanks for clearing that up. I do have a question regarding the yellow marks you have on the idler, upper ball joint stud and tie rod end. I have a similar yellow trace of paint on the top of my lower control arm ball joint stud. Did yellow denote suspension regardless of side, or as in the case of this photo did it mean passenger side yellow and the drivers side in a different color. With that said was passenger side considered yellow and drivers green.
In the pictures the "yellow" is shown on the center link - not the tie rod. For that year the Yellow (on these particular parts) identified PS related parts - not orientation marks
Jeff S mentioned that he has seen original examples where the arm which is mounted to the frame for the rear connection of the idler having two green slashes of paint between the mounting holes. With that i would think that maybe passenger side would be green and the drivers is yellow.
I have not found two green slashes on your year vehicle but on others. Believe in this case they were orientation marks
I know that sway bars typically had a green and yellow daub of paint. Probably signifying that yellow goes to this side and green to the opposite side. With that said was passenger side considered yellow and drivers green.
Sway bars did not typically have yellow and green marks - that was a specific identifier for only one (of many) sway bars. But it was a commonly used sway bar for many of the cars. These were not identifier marks
With that said was passenger side considered yellow and drivers green.
Nope
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Jeff Thanks for clearing that up. Where upper and lower control arm ball joints different for a PS versus manual steerinng car? Wondering why the studs have a yellow mark on the upper in the pic that Marcus sent along with the lower CA off my car.
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Where upper and lower control arm ball joints different for a PS versus manual steerinng car? Wondering why the studs have a yellow mark on the upper in the pic that Marcus sent along with the lower CA off my car.
No difference in control arms. The yellow on ball joint studs is common on most factory ball joints. I can't give a definitive answer on what it designates. Possibly was just a visual cue to help indicate if the castle nut had been installed.
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I've got the same thought as Charles in that we often see yellow used to high light some items to make assembly go quicker.
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Charles and Jeff, thanks for clearing up the yellow paint on connection points. Makes sense. One more question regarding idler arm and attching hrdware in this case. I've noticed a pinkinsh red anodizing of fasteners connecting idler arm to frame. i had another post regarding fastener finsh, phoshating tobe exact and it was mentioned that some of the mounting hardware such at excentric bolts at lower a arms, motor mount cross bolt and I thought that even idler arm bolts ere phoshated. There is someone selling a set of "F" marked boltts with the pinkish color stating they ar original 68 bolts and nuts. Now I know the repops have been out for years so I am a bit skeptical that the color would have lasted 40 plus years. I've never removed any bolts from a car which still had this plating. So my question is on a dearborn car would these in fact be pink or phoshate. Thanks again guys you are a wealth of informative help.
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Charles and Jeff, thanks for clearing up the yellow paint on connection points. Makes sense. One more question regarding idler arm and attaching hardware in this case. I've noticed a pinkish red anodizing of fasteners connecting idler arm to frame..........
The "pink" was really a red dye over the other plating. Ford used this practice to call attention to certain mounting hardware where they wanted to make certain that they were tight (torqued) as required. In the early years the practice was used on certain nuts and bolts but expanded in 68 for some reason (not sure if it was failures or some litigation)
There was a small pamphlet that was given to the plant workers in 68 explaining the the importance of this practice (went along with the expanded practice)
Many of us are either dipping these parts in red machinist dye or brushing it over the exposed surfaces to get the look
SO your answer is the retaining bolts (and nuts for the passenger side) that held the steering box and the idler arm to the car were IMHO likely phosphate with the red dye over that. This did include the large thick washers also
Hope this helps
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Jeff that was very informative and will be helpful. You mentioned the steering gearbox and idler arm attaching bolts but I thought I saw a car that also had it on the large nut which mounted the pitman arm to the steering gearbox and the u bolt nuts at the differential. Were those correct or did someone just think that it would look better. The u bolt nuts definitely make sense with what you wrote. So far I have the pumpkin bolts and the strut rod nuts pinkish/red. Looks like I need to find this machinist dye somewhere. Thanks again.
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You have to be careful (as do others) about what year and plant you take these details from. Allot of owners are allowing marks to migrate ;) from car to car.
I've seen and feel comfortable with the pittman nut being dyed on a 68 but have never seen the U bolt nuts done on the same, originally
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red dyed hardware (note: I think they added some as the year went on as not all had these)
Strut rod outer nuts
Steering box mounting
idler arm mounting
Steering coupling bolts
Strut rod to control arm nuts
Lower a arm eccentic nuts
Upper a arm attaching nuts
PS cylinder frame bracket hardware
Pumpkin nuts
U bolts nuts
Seat belt hardware
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T, your response looks to be very complete and will be very helpful. I do have a couple of questions and a comment though. It seems like the Upper and Lower control arm hardware is phosphate with a red dye on the nuts only? Same for the strut rod to lower arm connection, nuts only? Now for the seat belt hardware. That one I'm confused with. Are you referring to the big bolts that mount the end of the belt to the chassis. I've removed a number of these bolts and never seen red. In fact I only remember seeing them in zinc dichromate (gold). Well since my car was a mid- July of 68 assembly date I would guess that whatever they decided to make red in 68 my car would have since it was probably one of the last ones built before the factory shut down for 69 retooling and production.
Red dyed hardware (note: I think they added some as the year went on as not all had these)
Strut rod outer nuts
Steering box mounting
idler arm mounting
Steering coupling bolts
Strut rod to control arm nuts
Lower a arm eccentric nuts
Upper a arm attaching nuts
PS cylinder frame bracket hardware
Pumpkin nuts
U bolts nuts
Seat belt hardware
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I removed several sets of seat belt bolts off 68's a few months ago.....they are plain zinc dichromate. The round nickel size ring spacers behind the 4 rear belts will sometimes have red dye. I have seen them both ways.
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I mAy remember seeing the red washers. The bolts and washers are out in the garage so I will take a look. Bolts definitely have gold.
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red dyed hardware (note: I think they added some as the year went on as not all had these)
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Seat belt hardware
Referring to the washers. The red dye is easy to loose over the years especially since it was often a very light/thin application
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Marcus, The picture showing the 3 idlers positioned to show the FOMOCO logo has me wondering why the top arm seems to be without the logo? The other two clearly show it but the top one (even though cut off a bit) doesn't seem to have it.
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I checked those seat belt washers ad I found no trace of red dye on the washers.
Regarding the red dye I saw a original owner, low milage, never restored, sitting in a storage facility for the last 30+ years, 70 Gt 500 at a friends restoration facility this past weekend. Saw it a few months ago just sitting there but now it was completely disassembled. I looked at the fasteners specifically those that we mentioned were dyed red. They were NOT dyed lightly so as to have a redish pink. They were very dark. Almost to the point of being almost brown. Very evident on the shafts which were protected by the frame. I think the new red dye is reformulated because of that whole red dye issue in the late 70's. They said the old red caused cancer and there was even talk at the time that you wouldn't be able to get red dye.
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I do not think the red dye is easy to lose, at least on the rear seat belt bolt washers. i removed several sets from a salvage yard and the seat and everything was gone and the red dye was very prevalent. Not all 68's had the red dye on these washers. Those that did not were plain zinc dichromate.
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Keep in mind that the red dye was applied on top of the fastener original finish. Thus, red dye on a phosphate/oil nut/bolt will look very dark whereas red dye on a zinc or cadmium nut/bolt will look very light to an almost pinkish color.
John is correct that the dye does not come off that easily. The best example of this is the small wire retainer clips that are used to hold the e-brake housing to the underside (2 at the back, 1 at the front). Whenever I pull an original set off and clean them, I can always find the original red dye.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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........ I think the new red dye is reformulated because of that whole red dye issue in the late 70's. They said the old red caused cancer and there was even talk at the time that you wouldn't be able to get red dye.
Believe that was the food additive red dye not the industrial (non food) dyes.
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GTAMustang I am confused about the wire clips you referred to. Are these the hairpin looking clips which hold the e-brake cable to the three mounting points under the car. As you mentioned 2 in the rear and one up front. I am pretty sure I know what you are referring to. You say they are red? I just saw a 69 Shelby on a lift this past weekend and noted that these were zinc dichromate (gold). Did Ford switch from red dye to ZD between 67 and 69? Was this a plant to plant difference? Not sure but weren't all 69 Shelbys built in Dearborn? Actually this may have been a 69 left over and actually was registered as a 70. Color was Grabber Green so I'm not sure if that was available in 69.
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I cannot tell you anything of technical value about Mustangs beyond the 1968 model year. However, I can tell you that for part of 67 model year and all of 68 model year, the "hairpin" e-brake cable housing retainer clips were coated with red dye.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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Pete, your confirmation is help enough. I'm working on a 68 and was prepared to send these out to have Plated. I have the red dye so I can do them at home. Thanks.