ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: J_Speegle on December 18, 2016, 05:36:41 PM
-
We discussed this feature earlier in another thread and the subject came up (related to San Jose production) on another site so wanted to extend the research to or members and include what data we could add to what I'm assembling. Same "rules" as the other surveys
This thread is posted to collect data related to the square rubber pad attached to the passenger side inner fender panel near the positive battery post and its mounting methods that applied to original 66 Mustangs build at all three plants. To participate please read the following. Thanks for your participation
- This is ONLY for 1966 Mustangs!!
- Participants need to provide the cars VIN (you can leave off the last two numbers if you choose to keep it private) and the projected build date from the original door/warranty tag. If you happen to have the original date of sale that might help also
- Look for features or clues of the panel being replaced. Not uncommon and often from acid/rust or accident damage
- We're interested in if there are holes for the plastic rivets in the rubber pad or not. If there are small round holes in the inner fender panel or not. If there are signs of four staple holes (very very small holes) in the inner fender panel. A combination of a number of these findings or something else.
- Picture would really help confirm things.
Again thanks for your time
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
San Jose results so far
After looking at the date the follow pattern has appeared. Early in the production year San Jose stapled the battery post shield to the passenger side inner fender panel much like how the radiator seals were attached on those cars so equipped. A change was made and the new design meant that the shields would be attached using four plastic insert rivets. This design change was reflected much earlier in the year as the shields were provided to the factory with the four holes in the rubber pads.
During the transition it appears that San Jose workers continued to staple the shields as the pre punch (with holes for the plastic retaining rivets). Not sure if this is due to a lack of the rivets or having a mix of punched and unpunched panels available. Once all cars started receiving the punch inner fender panels the rivets were used consistently through the rest of production.
The transition period at this point appears to be between 6R164xxx and 6R172xxx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-100117223018.jpeg)
So since cars were not in sequential order and cars completed (documented) on the same day could have a range of sequential numbers by as much as 4,000 units I would say that this is as close as we can get given today's available information and limitations.
-
No picture, but Midlife (6T09A1851xx) with an original fender apron had the four holes but no rubber shield when I got it in 1998. Jan 1966 Metuchen car.
-
same with mine. Jan 21st Metuchen. Rubber pad was missing however the original plastic rivets were still there. 6T07C1962##
-
Four holes in sheetmetal but no rubber pad or pins when I bought it in 1980. 6T09K12 October Metuchen build
-
A pair of San Jose cars both with pads installed, the first with a scheduled build date of 15 Oct 65, the second of 18 Oct 65. You can see a slightly different location for the pins. The pad on the "K" code was replaced, the "A" code (a daily driver - retired) I've had since 1988 and have not replaced that one.
Jim
-
6F08C2602XX 18B
Rubber shield, four holes in shield and inner fender, plastic rivets
John
-
For Metuchen 6T08C129XXX, scheduled build date October 16, 1965: four holes for the plastic rivets. Rivets and pad replaced.
-
SAN JOSE BUILT, 11-08-65, 6R09K129XXX, STAPLED, BUT WITH HOLES FOR RIVETS IN PAD, HOPE PIC COMES THRU, THIS CAR WAS OWNED BY ONE MAN SINCE 7-66. HOPE THIS HELPS, AS THIS IS A MOSTLY ORIGINAL CAR, SO FAR ALL COMPONENTS ARE THERE EXCEPT CORRECT RADIATOR.
-
SAN JOSE BUILT, 11-08-65, 6R09K129XXX, STAPLED, BUT WITH HOLES FOR RIVETS IN PAD, ........
Since the door tag date was just a guess do you happen to have the stamping date for the panel? Below the where the battery tray attaches under the battery but above where the support arms attache just above the frame rail
-
I am working out of town but will look this weekend. do you need door tag pic?
-
I am working out of town but will look this weekend. do you need door tag pic?
No the door tag will only provide the date that the plant guessed the car might have been built on but often off by weeks or even months. We can wait for the date thanks for considering and participating. We seem to get a fair amount of information collected when allot of members participate :)
-
For San Jose 6R09A1504XX, Stapled original pad (has the holes for plastic rivets ONLY IN THE PAD). I'll try an get a picture posted up later and provide the panel date stamp also. I know it's there, as I remember seeing it awhile back when I had the battery removed and was detailing the tray area.
*I'm going to have to remove my battery tray to get that date stamp it appears. The date stamp on top of the bracket for the sway bar is 12 17 2, all the spot welds are original around it, so I'm confident with this data provided.
**Ok, having a well earned Dark Ale now...date on the panel is 12 3. I couldn't make out the shift number but I managed to get the important part at least.
Time to go watch the Rose Bowl!
-
For 6R07T213966
-
removed battery tray and as of now can't locate date stamping. were they all above where panel meets frame rail? I may have to get some paint remover to get thru the gunk, washed it and scrubbed with brush but buildup there, all spot welds appear are original. OOOOPS, you scolded me about zip file, sorry.
-
removed battery tray and as of now can't locate date stamping. were they all above where panel meets frame rail? I may have to get some paint remover to get thru the gunk, washed it and scrubbed with brush but buildup there, all spot welds appear are original. OOOOPS, you scolded me about zip file, sorry.
You can see/take a picture through the "window" created by the lower battery tray support
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-010117155316-65552461.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-010117155314-65541659.jpeg)
Isn't fun :)
-
will clean better down there and report back later, I'm on central time.
-
here is what I found, 10 12D2? ALSO PIC OF DRIVERS FRONT APRON DATE CODE 10 21 D3. I CAN HELP WITH WHATEVER YOU NEED.
-
I am not super sharp on '66s, but would like to ask a question if I may; I thought the '66s had the rubber pads because they DID NOT have a vinyl cover over the positive terminal itself?
-
+ battery cable did indeed have a red cover on the cable.
-
66 Metuchen, NJ Fastback 6T09C243XXX Survivor
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z128/fst05/20170104_092044_zpsarcp6qk4.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/fst05/media/20170104_092044_zpsarcp6qk4.jpg.html)
-
6F08A399672 25F date code. Still had 2 push pins in the original apron.
-
Finally took the time to look at my collection of pictures for 66's built at the other two plants and wanted to report back with those findings which I added to all the examples you members posted. What I found is that I could not find unrestored examples built during 1966 production at either of the two plants that were installed with the staples as the earlier San Jose cars were.
No real reason to post all the VINs of all the cars I used as examples since the findings were all the same. Of course if some member has a finding to the contrary we wait to hear from you as well as the details from that car or cars. At this poitn goign to put this one to bed and move on to something else
-
For 1966 Mustangs, Ford added a rubber pad on the right hand fender apron near the battery as an insulator, the battery hot cable can touch the fender apron and raise havoc. If you replace the right front fender apron, you may get one without the four holes for the pad. Here's a sketch I created in 2003 to position and drill the holes for the pad on a 66 Mustang that had severe battery corrosion on the fender apron. I used two Oct 65 San Jose Mustangs to get the dimensions.
Note: The Ford Part Number for the pad is a 65 number - C5ZF-10K653-A. However, it first appears in the 66 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual (AM0013 page 15). The pad may have a TSB adding it to the fender apron in late 65. As a service number, its base number, 10K653, does not appear in the 60-68 or 75 editions of Ford Car Parts (aka MPC) as a service part, so it was most likely a "dealer, fabricate something that works" item.
The pad and retainers are available at many Mustang parts sellers.
Jim
-
Thanks Jim merged it with this thread. Most service replacement passenger side inner fender panels incorporated the holes for the pad - something to consider if your replacing one on a car from 65 or a 66 with the staple version.
-
The nomenclature is the problem. The only reference to this I found is in the 66 Mustang Assembly Manual, page 15, and the item is referred to as a "Pad", not shield. I searched for "pad" and came up with nothing. Consider a title enhancement.
Jim
-
Our 1966 Hertz, 6S550 Has the staples. Ron
-
The nomenclature is the problem. ..........
Agreed.
Always difficult to choose between what Ford used back in the day or more commonly used terms for today when people are trying to choose a word or two to insert in a search engine. One of the reasons I often include "first choice/better choice" wording in my responses. Think for a third member we once came up with 16 different terms and names for the drop out section. :)
-
Attached picture of the Battery Shield (or I should say what was left of it after an early 80's Engine Compartment fire) on my 1966, November 22, 1965 Scheduled Build, Metuchen Coupe.
Bob
-
Attached picture of the Battery Shield (or I should say what was left of it after an early 80's Engine Compartment fire) on my 1966, November 22, 1965 Scheduled Build, Metuchen Coupe.
I don't think the battery is a factory type :)
Jim
-
Looks like I need to split this thread into three (by plant) individual threads since we have main Running change threads established for all three plants now. So expect to see that soon
-
I don't think the battery is a factory type :)
Jim
Maybe that was the cause ?? By the way, I got a charge out of your comment. It was a very electrifying experience - especially since my wife was alone driving it when it started to overheat. While she was at a gas station calling me (pre-cell phone of course), she saw smoke and flames coming from under the hood. Luckily, the Fire Department got there rather quickly, and had it out before it got past the firewall ; although I didn't like it that they took as fire ax to the engine.
Actually, the best I could tell afterwards, it was a gas ignited fire. This was odd for an engine that never leaked a drop of oil, water or gas. Only thing I came up with was that something caused the engine to overheat, and with the added 104° Summer temperature, the gas boiled out of the carb and hit the hot engine - poof.
Bob
-
It would be interesting if Jeff commented on why or if the need for a fire axe to the engine in a situation like this.
-
It would be interesting if Jeff commented on why or if the need for a fire axe to the engine in a situation like this.
Didn't see or notice that an ax was used to gain access in this case but without getting into the tall weeds I would offer the following. Since the 70's less and less car hoods are opened mechanically from the exterior of the car and instead using a cable which often does not operate once a fire gets going. Fire departments started training and using direct access of going through the hood since the strength of the latch is a federal standard and it is the strongest point in the assembly so forcing it directly can be done but not always successful or easy as you stand in the heat and possibly flames. Because of this many/most FD's train to go through using an axe or a perching nozzle. The problem with this is its fairly quick but at some point you still need to open the hood to complete the full task. For our department (shared and trained other departments in the technique over the years) I was tasked with coming up with a better way by going after the hinges instead. Since there are no regulations on their construction they are always the weakest point and can be overcome in under a minute with the technique. Bottom line on older car is that most firefighters do not know how older cars are constructed and in turn fall back on a one size fits all responses. And it does get the job done though thicker metal and construction can make it more difficult
-
Didn't see or notice that an ax was used to gain access in this case but without getting into the tall weeds I would offer the following. Since the 70's less and less car hoods are opened mechanically from the exterior of the car and instead using a cable which often does not operate once a fire gets going. Fire departments started training and using direct access of going through the hood since the strength of the latch is a federal standard and it is the strongest point in the assembly so forcing it directly can be done but not always successful or easy as you stand in the heat and possibly flames. Because of this many/most FD's train to go through using an axe or a perching nozzle. The problem with this is its fairly quick but at some point you still need to open the hood to complete the full task. For our department (shared and trained other departments in the technique over the years) I was tasked with coming up with a better way by going after the hinges instead. Since there are no regulations on their construction they are always the weakest point and can be overcome in under a minute with the technique. Bottom line on older car is that most firefighters do not know how older cars are constructed and in turn fall back on a one size fits all responses. And it does get the job done though thicker metal and construction can make it more difficult
For the record (again), Jeff is a retired Fireman.
Jim
-
And how does one get into the engine compartment using your technique utilizing the hinges? Curious minds (me, myself and I) want to know.
-
And how does one get into the engine compartment using your technique utilizing the hinges? Curious minds (me, myself and I) want to know.
I'll PM you tomorrow and see if I can explain. Don't recall if I created a lesson plan or a pictorial showing the process while I ran the Academy my lat 6 years. Trained about 400 firefighters during that period
-
Thanks. I got the PDF. Interesting.