ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: tlvenne on January 04, 2016, 11:16:55 AM
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I am sure this has been brought up, but I can't find any of the info I am looking for.
I am looking for photo's and/or direction of how the rear seat package tray is assembled in a 1967-1968 fastback. I can't seem to find details or a pics anywhere. For this being a standard, non upgrade option, they don't seem to be very standard in them anymore! My rear interior is essentially missing and I am trying to figure out if i should install a fold down seat assembly ($$$) or the non foldown. I am 90% sure the car originally came with a non-foldown, but I can't find examples online anywhere that will help me know what parts I need to acquire.
Thanks for all the help, and I love the site!
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to know for sure get a marti report. http://www.martiauto.com
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Get a set of Osborn produced Mustang Assembly Manuals for your year car. What you seek is on page 47 of the body manual. From that page, you can see what items you need and how it goes together. Acquiring the parts is the difficult part.
Jim
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Fair number of differences between the fold down and non fold down in 67-68
Trap door is more of a single sheet of metal rather than having a face and a rear liner. The total panel is slightly larger also as shown in the picture (ignore the carpeted rear panel and the speaker screw holes)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152859-50132174.jpeg)
A section of painted masonite replaced the rear panel (compared to the carpeted and trim metal panel used on fold downs) Please ignore the PO added speakers and vents :(
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152901-5014909.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152858-5012672.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152857-50111947.jpeg)
Side seat latches were replaced with a single L shaped bracket on each side bolted to the rear seat section to keep it upright
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152855-50102433.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152854-5009777.jpeg)
On the later 67 and 68 fastbacks a latch cover was made that is different from the fold down style
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-040116152853-50071399.jpeg)
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Jeff, You're the best! I really appreciate these and they are exactly what I need.
I have seen two latch plate styles as well, one has more of an outward shape to it. Shown installed in one of the photo's. The other is more flat, shown in the photo of the lone latch plate. Guidance on when/why those were changed?
Another question, I can't identify what is the piece at the bottom of the trap door. Anyone help? Some pics show a gap (missing piece I presume) and others show it. Like many of the small pieces, I am guessing this will be the hard part to track down and I will need to begin my hunt for it. I just need to know what exactly it is called.
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Jeff, You're the best! I really appreciate these and they are exactly what I need.
I have seen two latch plate styles as well, one has more of an outward shape to it. Shown installed in one of the photo's. The other is more flat, shown in the photo of the lone latch plate. Guidance on when/why those were changed?
Yes noticed that also (flat verses with the bump) also the very early may have had no covers and small cut off's like the fold down style. Not enough non-fold downs at this point to figure out when the change or why (plant to plant) yet. If you had included when and where the car was built we could at least have looked closer at cars close to the same date as yours and same plant ;)
Another question, I can't identify what is the piece at the bottom of the trap door. Anyone help? Some pics show a gap (missing piece I presume) and others show it. Like many of the small pieces, I am guessing this will be the hard part to track down and I will need to begin my hunt for it. I just need to know what exactly it is called.
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The small trim edge at the bottom kept the panel from being bent (no hinges at the top) forward of the owner detached it at the bottom
Not sure if it has a "name" but will look at some other pictures to see if its a separate piece and other details
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Jeff do you know what percentage of 68's came with a fold down seat ? Your pics above is the first non fold down I have seen.
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tlvenne Checked and I don't have a clear picture of that lower edge to determine if its welded or attached in another way to the bottom edge of the filler panel that covers over the trap door opening :(
All I found was a fairly close up picture of the two panels together in the trunk of a nice unrestored 68 San Jose example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-070116204636.jpeg)
Jeff do you know what percentage of 68's came with a fold down seat ? Your pics above is the first non fold down I have seen.
According to Ford's records care of Kevin Marti's MUSTANG BY THE NUMBERS more than half of the 68 fastback production had non-fold down rear seats.
Out of 42,579 fastbacks only 20,947 of the buyers paid extra to get a fold down rear seat. Of course your seeing the results of allot of prior owners and "restorers" opting to add this option to their non-fold down cars
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The lower formed piece is spot welded to the upper section.
There are also at least two different mounting hole configurations for the Masonite piece. One that has holes arranged to mount to the pads over the shock mount crossmember and the other with holes around the perimeter.
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There are also at least two different mounting hole configurations for the Masonite piece. One that has holes arranged to mount to the pads over the shock mount crossmember and the other with holes around the perimeter.
Which plant for which pattern(s) and or is it related to production year?
Don't recall seeing any of the perimeter screw examples so asking - All my non fold down pictures have the few away from the edges
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The perimeter pattern is for Dearborn built 68.
Late, as in 68 1/2.
I have no idea about the center style.
I'll get some photos & post them.
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J_Speegle Mine is a late '67 Metuchen built. Sorry I didn't denote that build. As far as the latch plates, mine are more of the 'flat' ones, not the one with the bump out or just a cut out in the my rear panel. No guaruntee the are original to the car though.
So what I am concluding is, I'll need to find the non-fold down filler panel where the trap door is on the fold downs, and hopefully it will have that trim piece still attached. Welded or bolted, I'll be lucky to just find it.
Given that non fold downs are about 50% of all '67, they seem harder to come by. It seems like they produce everything for the fold-down assembly, and not parts of the non fold down, so most resto's have converted them to the fold down feature.
Another photo' request if it is readly availible, does someone have a photo of the back side of the filler panel, from the trunk? I am curious what they look like on the back side and how they are different from the trap door.
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J_Speegle Mine is a late '67 Metuchen built. Sorry I didn't denote that build. As far as the latch plates, mine are more of the 'flat' ones, not the one with the bump out or just a cut out in the my rear panel. No guaruntee the are original to the car though.
So what I am concluding is, I'll need to find the non-fold down filler panel where the trap door is on the fold downs, and hopefully it will have that trim piece still attached. Welded or bolted, I'll be lucky to just find it.
You'll also need a masonite panel or a pattern for the filler between the (what on FD are trap doors) and the back of the seat
Given that non fold downs are about 50% of all '67, they seem harder to come by. It seems like they produce everything for the fold-down assembly, and not parts of the non fold down, so most resto's have converted them to the fold down feature.
The numbers above and the question was for 68 fold downs verses non fold downs. in 67 it's about approx 40-50% of the cars got non fold downs to fold downs (the book has a typo that either makes the total number of fold down cars either in the 25 thousand or 35 thousand out of approx 71 thousand fastbacks
Another photo' request if it is readly availible, does someone have a photo of the back side of the filler panel, from the trunk? I am curious what they look like on the back side and how they are different from the trap door.
Unlike the trap door which has a face and back (trunk side) panels that are pinched around the edge this is a single piece of sheet metal that makes up 90 plus percent of the filler
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-070116235106-50311555.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-070116235101-5021915.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-070116235105-50301612.jpeg)
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Photo of Masonite filler panel attached
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Here's a closeup look at the texture of the panel from my '68 SJ. The back side is unpainted, except for the lines and blotches. It appears that they were painted by running through a roller system, and random blobs of paint on the pressure roller(s) caused the pattern on the back.
I can't vouch for the originality of the holes - mine might have some "extras".
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Pretty much the same material and possibly source as the coupe interior package trays and the trunk/spare tire boards
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Jeff, I don't see the latch so Ill ask would the latch usually mounted in the trunk to hold the trap door closed just be omitted and no other changes for the installation of one of these panels ?
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Jeff, I don't see the latch so Ill ask would the latch usually mounted in the trunk to hold the trap door closed just be omitted and no other changes for the installation of one of these panels ?
Not sure if I fully understand the question. No standard bottom center latch like used on the fold down cars. No place to attach it to. No hinges, no bar that holds the trap door open or things like that
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My mistake as I wrote this I was thinking the latch was mounted below the trap door and was pushed up to engage the door, the latch is correctly mounted to the trap door and pushed down to engage thanks for the response. After spending 3 days at Fords at Carlisle and trying to hunt one car equipped like this (non fold down ) there was one and the installation was a butcher job.
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Due to other action on the fold-down front, I thought I'd dig through some parts as I recalled tearing into a non-fold-down many eons ago.
All of these parts came from the same car. I believe it was a 68.
In this pic, starting at top left is the pax bracket, driver's side and the two brackets.
Do these parts make sense for that application?
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Due to other action on the fold-down front, I thought I'd dig through some parts as I recalled tearing into a non-fold-down many eons ago.
All of these parts came from the same car. I believe it was a 68.
In this pic, starting at top left is the pax bracket, driver's side and the two brackets.
Do these parts make sense for that application?
No - Don't believe so
Doesn't look like the bracket will fit through the "latch" cover on the passenger side. On other examples I have latch covers with the slot installed on both sides of the car in back. As shown in picture #3 of reply #3
Examples I have of both 67 and 68 don't have the provision on the passenger side for the latch - smaller longer cut out and no provision for the handle on top on non-fold down cars
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I?ve been looking for information on fixed rear seat fastback for a long time, since I want to convert my fastback back to factory specs, which is without the sportsdeck rear seat.
It took a while to gather all the required parts, especially to find a decent rear interior panel panel.
Regarding the package tray, I also noticed two different hole pattern. More confusing are some observations in other forums about a piece of plywood that should support the masonite board.
Here a few pictures I found online and a link to a document with measurements on the website of Dan (Glazier Nolan).
https://cdn.website.thryv.com/7fc8b09813234ba0b3c5e3c0a1b8c109/files/uploaded/1967-1968-Mustang-Fastback-non-fold-down-rear.pdf
https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/1967-non-fold-down-seat.614344/#post-3988510
Neither the illustraion manual nor the assembly manual depicts this piece of plywood.
Was the masonite package tray really mounted directly on the body brackets?
Laurent
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I?ve been looking for information on fixed rear seat fastback for a long time, since I want to convert my fastback back to factory specs, which is without the sportsdeck rear seat.
It took a while to gather all the required parts, especially to find a decent rear interior panel panel.
Regarding the package tray, I also noticed two different hole pattern. More confusing are some observations in other forums about a piece of plywood that should support the masonite board.
Here a few pictures I found online and a link to a document with measurements on the website of Dan (Glazier Nolan).
https://cdn.website.thryv.com/7fc8b09813234ba0b3c5e3c0a1b8c109/files/uploaded/1967-1968-Mustang-Fastback-non-fold-down-rear.pdf
https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/1967-non-fold-down-seat.614344/#post-3988510
Neither the illustraion manual nor the assembly manual depicts this piece of plywood.
Was the masonite package tray really mounted directly on the body brackets?
Laurent
No plywood, It mounted directly to the body brackets. I had one of these non fold down fastbacks some time ago.
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I?ve been looking for information on fixed rear seat fastback for a long time, since I want to convert my fastback back to factory specs, which is without the sportsdeck rear seat.
It took a while to gather all the required parts, especially to find a decent rear interior panel panel.
Regarding the package tray, I also noticed two different hole pattern. More confusing are some observations in other forums about a piece of plywood that should support the masonite board.
Some else's "Better Idea". Surprised that didn't insert some foam or insulation to deadener the sound or any vibration. Never found, seen or have pictures of a plywood layer on a 67
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I'm about to start the conversion from a fold down rear seat to rear fixed seat, which is the way my car was delivered back in Dec 66. I gathered all the parts and my research regarding the masonite package tray definitely shows that there were two versions. The first version (seems to be early 67 production) had only two holes (original, right on the picture) and the second version (late 67, 68) with the 7 holes pattern (repop, left on the picture).
The rear body brackets in my car do not have any holes for the self taping screws 380660-S as depicted in the illustration or assembly manual.
Does anybody have an illustration from an earlier date?
My illustration Manual has been updated in April 67.
Laurent
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a few more observation regarding the differences in non folding fastback during the 1967 and 1968 years.
regarding the package tray, or "auxiliary rear floor panel cover", a transition happened in 1967 from a two holes design to a 7 holes design. The MPC of April 1967 lists only two required fasteners "380660-S2" for this panel.
The trunk divider panel has also evolved during the 1967 year. Beside the upper molding with visible fastener (has already been discussed in an other thread), the bottom of the sheet metal has a different stamping. Early 67 panel have a flat bottom with 5 holes and later panels have a kind of reinforcement stamping with only 3 holes.
The early package tray has marks on the bottom side, as if it was sitting over the five fasteners of the divider panel.
Unfortunately, there are no pictures of known unrestored 67 fastbacks with the earlier style package tray and divider panel and it still questionable, how these "2 holes" package trays were mounted on the rear body.
Laurent
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The early package tray has marks on the bottom side, as if it was sitting over the five fasteners of the divider panel.
Was this detail taken from one example or do you have multiple original examples with the depressions or marks on the bottom? Also what plant was the example(s) built at and what were their projected or real build dates to go along with the description. If this is a single example from your December 66 built car then we have that information from your earlier (reply #24)
Will need to pull out some additional examples and one divider that is in the attic. Have one floor panel in pictures with multiple wholes along the back/rear edge and two in the forward corners during a quick look into one picture directory. Have some floor sections with only two visible retaining screws on later cars. Guess I need to post with their details to see where they fall into the pattern and help get this further than the small unreliable numbers we have so far. At least as possible. Shame so many were tossed when owners "ungraded" to fold downs
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Jeff,
thank for your answer.
Regarding the marks on the package tray, I noticed that on the only original panel I own. These orignial masonite panels seem to be rare, as the trunk divider panels. It did not came fom my signature car, but was taken of a 67 San Jose fastback (build date unknow).
My research is mostly based on observation of cars listed in the internet and it does not have the scientific or methodic approach, that is usually the rule here.
The divider panel in the car with red interior is from a Metuchen 68 fastback (here again no build date).
On this picture, another example of the package tray with 2 holes from a january 8th San Jose car. Obviously no 100% original, with additional fastener and speakers. Note also, the latch cover plate without bump, that is, early style.
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On this picture, another example of the package tray with 2 holes from a January 8th San Jose car. Obviously no 100% original, with additional fastener and speakers. Note also, the latch cover plate without bump, that is, early style.
Not being 100% original is not a reason to consider, with notation of the rest of the condition IMHO if the findings at some point match other unrestored cars
Since this picture only shows the center to passenger side end are you certain that there was not one on the drivers side or are your choosing to discount the center hole since it does not match other examples so far. Have had some issues that have slowed down my posting of some additional pictures but have gone through 67 SJ so far and will post
I think we again dis a disservice to the topic allowing both 67 and 68 details in the same thread