Topic: 69 undercarriage

[specialfinds]

I'm helping out a buddy to do his undercarriage this is a super clean never been played with 69 350 convertible steamed cleaned his undercarriage and giving it a better cleaning now manually it's unreal how clean this car is.Now i know everybody is using the ppg red primer this car is not red and not because it has aged but it's like a touch of a purplish color my buddy wants to try and put it back the same color.I know they were using batch colors but rarely do people try and use what they found.Should we try and attempt to match this color or make it a cookie cutter car like so many out there and would he get flak for not being like all the others.We have been taking pics of what is there now.

[cobrajetchris]

My DEARBORN built 69 mach 1 has a metallic blue undercarriage color that I had my paint jobber do a color reading on it with a spectrometer and it come out very close. This is what it had, so that's what I went with and it looks fine. Take some photos of the undercarriage before the restoration and that is your documentation. I have found you can't take too many photos in a restoration.

[J_Speegle]

If you do a search you'll see that the discussion has come up before. You'll find my documentation of a 69 Dearborn restoration at that thread  - with a fair number of pictures
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

Everyone USED TO use red oxide but in the more recent years the batch colors is more an accepted finish though red oxide has been documented as used during specific periods of the production year. It appears that for the batch paint they started with an epoxy primer then added allot of left over paint from a time period (may be a day, a shift....) before the car was shot.

Since its just basic colors if you add enough of every color in the rainbow you will get a almost black color. At the same time we know that every color was not available not applied in equal numbers so if there were more blue or green paint left over than the finished product that batch was tinted towards that color. More whites or light yellows the color was lighter. More metallics....... well you get the idea.

As always its best to match exactly what you find on your particular car and document it (I keep a large bag (moving into multiple bags) of samples cut from the floor boards of restored or repaired Mustangs and Shelbys.

If you car lacks any evidence of the original color the second best choice is to seek out a car built the same day or week and at the same factory.

Bottom line - restore it as you find it (unless there is a suggestion that the car has been played with) and as you have been, document, document

[Bob Gaines]

I'm helping out a buddy to do his undercarriage this is a super clean never been played with 69 350 convertible steamed cleaned his undercarriage and giving it a better cleaning now manually it's unreal how clean this car is.Now i know everybody is using the ppg red primer this car is not red and not because it has aged but it's like a touch of a purplish color my buddy wants to try and put it back the same color.I know they were using batch colors but rarely do people try and use what they found.Should we try and attempt to match this color or make it a cookie cutter car like so many out there and would he get flak for not being like all the others.We have been taking pics of what is there now.

I agree with Jeff on the prefered and most prefevent undercarrage color for a 69 Shelby. I would take pictures of the undercarrage. It will be a two fold benefit. First to show evidence for your choice and two to show fellow enthusiasts/historians a variation for a undercarrage color. You did not mention when your car was built but I have seen a number of early 69 Shelby's with red oxide only instead of the batch paint over the red oxide or batch paint only undercarrage. Bob   

[J_Speegle]

Bob response reminded me that we were discussing only the color of the floors not the complete undercarriage. To that point did you find that the front frame rails and inner fenders had been first painted red oxide before body color or black was applied. This is typical for even the batch color floor cars as the floor was painted by passing it over a fixture while we understand that the firewall forward was applied by hand (sprayed)

We have seen a couple of cars that did not follow this pattern but at this point these appear to be out of the norm.

Would add to Bob's response about 69 Dearborn production that I've seen pictures of original cars that were described as red oxide from the late months of 69 production. Still look to confirm with more examples to help determine how long that was a practice

[specialfinds]

This is a April 23 car.We had a guy come in from paint store with a scanner to scan the undercarriage so that was great now for the front end it seams it's shiny  black in the shock towers with lots of fumed body color even inside the towers.It's not the black from painting the outside aprons cause the fumes is on top of this dark color,i know it's never been touched cause when i removed the inside tower covers you can see body color under where it was bolted.Hard to not disturb some of the underneath while taking off the undercoating that is the top coat,taking  pics as we go along.Figure shoot red,pink,or blue it's the same process so lets try and do what we find.We're not a shop just 2 guys in a home garage trying to have fun and make it through cold Canadian winter lol.Sure will be lot more questions and thanks for the help so far guys.

[J_Speegle]

This is a April 23 car.We had a guy come in from paint store with a scanner to scan the undercarriage so that was great now for the front end it seams it's shiny  black in the shock towers with lots of fumed body color even inside the towers..................

Its typical to see a car with a combination of the base red oxide, body color from the application on the exterior and the black from the radiator support and fender lip applicatio. Where each stops and startes depends on how far forward the painter went that day with the body color and how far rearward the guy painting the black went past the radiator support (expecting overspray from with of the two applications) or how far down he want that time from painting the inner fender lip.

Here are a few examples

One 69 Dearborn  carwhere the painter added allot of extra black to the inner fender area over the red oxide (all the way to the shock tower and inside it)





Here is a 69 Deaborn example where the body color was not applied all the way to the shock tower (some of the black overspray was likely scrubbed away during the cleaning process - the stuff is light (in places) and can be removed with little effort




Here is some shots of the 69 Shelby we finished last year during the build process

[specialfinds]

We got back in the garage and cleaned up the outside apron still no red oxide.What we found was a very dark almost black with body color over it.Has lot of overspray even inside towers to where the top of coil spring mount some overspray has come off from removing the undercoating  also  little overspray to front of apron,there is no red.So all we have is almost pink floors and real dark color in towers and frame.Is this what we should replicate,or is red still what we should be doing.This is a late April car maybe  was the  changeover by than.It's just all the restored cars we see from so many sites this is the only with the towers like this.This as you see is a clean car this red has to be in some tiny place left at least if there was any.

[J_Speegle]

We got back in the garage and cleaned up the outside apron still no red oxide.What we found was a very dark almost black with body color over it.Has lot of overspray even inside towers to where the top of coil spring mount some overspray has come off from removing the undercoating  also  little overspray to front of apron,there is no red.So all we have is almost pink floors and real dark color in towers and frame.

Guessing the "pink" on the floors is the interior side ?

Seen about four 69 Dearborn cars done like yours ( the same or similar batch color used from the firewall forward. Have not found a pattern as of yet (yours is the first April car done that way that I have pictures of)

Is this what we should replicate,or is red still what we should be doing.

I would reproduce what you found in this cause - since there is no apparent indication that the grey got there at some point after the car was assembled. I would save the pictures that you have and if your going to show the car at some point in a judged event have them available since what you have appears not to be the typical practice or product.

This is a late April car maybe  was the  changeover by than..........

Don't think so. More likely IMHO, this was a day or couple of days where they did sometime different for some (at this point) unexplained reason. Have pictures (and own a couple) of late April cars and have pictures of other April ones also

[specialfinds]

This is the pic of the floor pans,there was lot more overspray but cleaning took some off.We hear that you should do what you find,you can see this car is clean not some car that who know's what it's been through since day one but the pics show's what it is.We want to check here since lot of you guys,like yourself Jeff you guys have so much documentation and experience  know more than me and my buddy and try and feel what the consensus is.Since we keep discovering more things the number on the rad support in the pic,i see guys that put the number on the outside,is this under the black or it just  stained through on the bare metal.

[J_Speegle]

This is the pic of the floor pans,there was lot more overspray but cleaning took some off.We hear that you should do what you find,you can see this car is clean not some car that who know's what it's been through since day one but the pics show's what it is

Looks mire like a backwards (wonder if someone hooked up the paint lines that day   car reddish on the floors and gray on the front - opposite what we've seen on the other cars.   Good documentation

Since we keep discovering more things the number on the rad support in the pic,i see guys that put the number on the outside,is this under the black or it's still stained on the bare metal

Well some markings were over the last paint coat while others were on bare metal (this one as an example) - just depends on when it was applied and the purpose for the notation.  This particular one we don't see on allot or all of the cars built but we see this on Dearborn Mustangs back to the early 64 1/2's at that plant. Apparently (due to when it applied) it had an identification purpose during the bucking or first half of assembly - before paint

Thanks for the pictures - sure helps the discussion while adding to my collection

[specialfinds]

Good documentation

Thanks Jeff we're having fun,we're not use to cars like this here in the great white north usually we see these cars with the big boys in the game.But we are going slow and taking some of your advise over the last few years that you have given people on different sites.Will see what the finished product will be, i'm sure won't be perfect(lack of proper equipment and tools) but for a couple of guys playing around during long winter i think me and my buddy will tip the hat to each other lol.
Enjoy the pics for your library.

[carm]

We found pictures of this 70 Boss 302, Grabber blue from Virginia, It has the same colour undercarriage. Jeff, the pic may look reddish, but be assured this is not old red oxide. Does anybody know who this car belong to? Would be interesting to talk to the owner or previous owner..



http://cars-on-line.com/46236.html

[J_Speegle]

Carm - that car is a NJ built 70 Boss so we would expect to find red oxide colored primer sealer on the undercarriage the full length

Don't believe I've seen that restored car