Topic: Lower Control Arms 1965 - 1973

[Anghelrestorations]

Starting a new thread here just on the lower control arms to make it easier to stay on topic.  The Suspension Guide will include everything but this thread is just for the lower control arms.

http://anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/5/1/2/35122002/65_to_73_suspension_guide_v1.5aa.pdf

Have you ever found and examples of lower control arms with the version A jack tabs with C5 marked boots? If there are they are in the minority . I typically find more of that combination with a later engineering number boots. The version B jack tab style that you have marked is the more prevalent on 65/66 cars from what I have seen at least on the SJ cars . Maybe it is just the survivor and unmolested cars that I have paid attention to .These details make me skeptical of your conclusions. Of course I haven't seen them all but It seems that the pattern at least what I perceive is that the the tabs marked type A were later production 66 model year control arms and of course 67-70. I have not seen a different vendor style as you refer to it version A tab for instance on any later 67-70 arm that are not later service or repros. Has anyone else ? With that said it seemed logical to conclude that the type A style tab was more likely the newer evolution of tab style instead of different vendor. Type B tab seems to be early type. Just what I have observed others my have a different opinion . Your articles always end up being great so regardless hopefully the discussion will make for the most accurate article it can be.

Quote from: Anghelrestorations on Today at 02:29:40 AM
Bob...let me make sure I understand your question/comment first.

Are you asking on the C4DZ control arms if I have seen version A jacking tabs and the C5 boots?  Or are you asking about the C7OZ control arms? 
And you are saying you have not seen version A jacking tabs from 67 to 70?

Marcus....Yes on if you have seen the C4DZ arms with the your A jacking tabs and with the C5 boot. Have you seen the C7OZ control arms with the B tabs and the C7 boots?

2019-09-02_15-40-38 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

[Anghelrestorations]

Bob...answer to your first question is easy.  I have never seen C7 lower control arms for Mustang (or Cougar) with the square jacking tabs. 

For the C4 lower control arms I have pictures here what I pulled from my inventory today that actually still has C5 boots.  Of these one is with a square jacking tab and the other two are with the rounded style.

20190902_164510 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20190902_164525 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20190902_164529 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20190902_164540 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20190902_164655 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

[Bob Gaines]

Bob...answer to your first question is easy.  I have never seen C7 lower control arms for Mustang (or Cougar) with the square jacking tabs. 

For the C4 lower control arms I have pictures here what I pulled from my inventory today that actually still has C5 boots.  Of these one is with a square jacking tab and the other two are with the rounded style.

The 67 lower control arm tab style observation is not a surprise. That supports my observations and theory that the style of squared off jacking tab being the early style used on 65's and it evolved to the rounded tab style with the side nubs . The change from one to another with no sign of the square style being used in the C7 arm supports a progression or evolution of the tabs rather then a vendor difference.  I believe the rounded style tab with side nubs started sometime in later 66 production . I think you should reconsider saying that the tab style is a vendor difference . At least until or unless  documentation presents itself to the contrary. This is meant as a positive contribution to your article.

[Bob Gaines]

Another question is what are the nubs coming out of the side of the jack tab for ? Why the need to change from a more simple square design to a more involved rounded design with the nubs coming out the sides?  Anybody know?

[midlife]

i realize this question is a bit off-topic, but:What is the purpose of the jack tabs?  How are they used?
Thanks for indulging my ignorance.

[Anghelrestorations]

On the jacking tabs I tried to find what I could on these and see what Ford actually called them.  The official name for them is "Plate, Front Suspension Lower Arm".  So they were not called jacking tabs, but thats been the common name for years everyone has been using. 
One thing that seems for sure is the owner was not expected to crawl under the car and put the trunk jack under there to raise the car.  So if these were used for jacking purposes it would have been with a floor jack or a shop lift. 

As far as the shape of them cant say for sure why they had different shapes.  Makes more sense to me that the square tabs came on the earlier cars like Bob is saying especially since the drawing I attached in my first post here shows the rounded style with a C6 engineering number.   

[outlawincorporated]

MARCUS and BOB

images from a unrestored 66 that I own.
i hope this is what you are looking for

regards

PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.

[Anghelrestorations]

Thanks Phil.  Makes perfect sense.

In my opinion.... what I think we are seeing here is that the square jacking tabs came on earlier cars (1965?) with no clear date or time period when it went to the rounded style but those came second.
As for the boots I think the C2 boots came first, followed by the boots with no engineering numbers, and then the C5 boots during this time period.  Especially since you see the C5 boots still being used in the 1967 model year seems they were the last version being used. 

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks Phil.  Makes perfect sense.

In my opinion.... what I think we are seeing here is that the square jacking tabs came on earlier cars (1965?) with no clear date or time period when it went to the rounded style but those came second.
As for the boots I think the C2 boots came first, followed by the boots with no engineering numbers, and then the C5 boots during this time period.  Especially since you see the C5 boots still being used in the 1967 model year seems they were the last version being used.

I agree that there is no clear transition line from the squared style to the other but with that said at the very least the Square tab was used not only in 65 but into 66 . Hopefully we have put to bed the thought that the rounded tab version (C6 in the engineering drawings) was used in 65 as the rough draft article seemed to imply. How far into 66 production is still a question. I would be careful not to give the impression that the rounded tab style started from the beginning of 66 production. I have observed the majority of 66 production cars with the square tab vs. the rounded tab. This how soon transition may also be relative to the different plants.   I would also note that some repros have a rounded tab but not the tabs ,nubs whatever coming out sideways as in Phill's picture . That detail is very important in identifying a genuine looking rounded jack tab vs. a repro regardless of on a 66 or the later 67 up lower arm.

[CharlesTurner]

Also note the retainer plate for the ball joint boot, there's an early flat style and the later curved up edge style.

[Anghelrestorations]

Bob...I will change the language on the 65/ 66 jacking tabs and then we can take another look and see what makes sense.

Charles..I added the two different style boot retainers in the article already.  You see that.

The one thing I was hoping someone would comment is the "date codes".  The stampings I see on the lower control arms do not appear to be date codes.  Doesnt make sense from what I have seen during all these years. 

[outlawincorporated]

MARCUS.

the infamous "date codes" on lower and upper arms.  for many years I was under the impression the number and letter sequence would match what we see on other parts and labels for our cars but as I began to look further at my unrestored cars I hit a brick wall.  It didn't and still doesn't make sense to me the sequence I am seeing.

the lower arms in my picture have a M6 stamp on both, car in question is a July 66 example
upper arms from the same car are F4???

I have other examples where the lower arms are stamped L5 and the car in question is February 65 and although the stamps arent always crips and legible i have upper arms with a barely 6 visible and nothing else

Mike Murray could be a person to get involved in this matter as well with his 3 unrestored 65 cars


boot retainers like Charles has mentioned was something i only recently discovered as i have been mainly looking at 66 parts. think Charles has a belief the early retainer where flat and the next version was raised like what we still see on NOS control arms with the C7 boots.

another topic we could work our way into is the waffle pattern rivets V's the doom squashed examples.  think this could be a 65 V's 66 thing and up but its nice to try and expand our knowledge on such details


regards

PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.

[Bossbill]

When I took my original assy line LCAs apart on my 3/2/67 control arms on the Shelby I took a pic of the boots.
Marcus had a pic of the boot part numbers (mine are duplicated here) but here are the other marks.

Great article!

Is the boot changeover another 67 running change?

[edit add date and car of control arm]

[Anghelrestorations]

Phil...from what I see now and my research the domed rivets are what was originally on the 65/66 cars.
If you look at that closer the actual rivets are all the same from 65 to 73.  The only thing that changed is the tooling to compress the rivets.  They started using a different tooling to compress the rivets starting in 1968 time frame and then all the service parts that Ford was selling had the same waffle pattern on them as well.  Thats why you find the C4 service control arms now with a waffle pattern and C7 boots.

Bill...pictures you posed are the C4 (65/66) control arm?   

[outlawincorporated]

MARCUS

ohh how we love the little details
I had a understanding that 65 cars had the squashed domed rivet on the LCA's and this design changed some time in the 66 production year to the waffle pattern and that continues into the c4dz ford service with C7 boots.

The earliest service arm i have with a Yellow ford shipping label is dated 1971 and that also has the waffle pattern rivet

let see what further posts we get

regards

PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.